Author Topic: TSA Super Thread  (Read 209587 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #450 on: November 24, 2010, 07:11:51 PM »
Why can't we have the Israeli's come over and show us how to do this? All we're doing is taking reactive measures: a guy tries to light his shoe, we require passengers to take off shoes; somebody gets a potentially explosive liquid on board, we restrict liquids; some guy puts an explosive in his underwear, we require searches of private parts.

To the best of my knowledge, the Israeli's do none of this to the average air traveller.

Can I know where this alternative Israel exists? I want a ticket.
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TommyGunn

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #451 on: November 24, 2010, 07:34:38 PM »
Israel does a far better job insofar as screening individuals.  They have, however, far fewer airflights to deal with than our country.
If we could make their system work here, great.  It would require expanding the TSA maybe 200 fold...and getting to the airport six hours ahead of the flight....maybe. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Angel Eyes

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #452 on: November 24, 2010, 07:48:21 PM »
Can I get a Tee shirt that says, "Can I get a happy ending with my pat down?"

Is this close enough?

http://janetalia.com/

Definitely NSFW (as if the URL wasn't clear on that)

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Monkeyleg

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #453 on: November 24, 2010, 07:52:35 PM »
MicroBalrog, that's what I've read and heard from probably hundreds of sources since the 9/11 attacks. Would you mind detailing what is wrong with what I posted?

Quote
Israel does a far better job insofar as screening individuals.  They have, however, far fewer airflights to deal with than our country.
If we could make their system work here, great.  It would require expanding the TSA maybe 200 fold...and getting to the airport six hours ahead of the flight....maybe.

What is our ratio of flights compared to Israel's, and what is the ratio of our number of screening agents compared to theirs? It sounds like you're throwing out a blanket "200 fold" when we don't know the numbers. We have, what, 65,000 TSA agents now? How many have the Israeli's?

Angel Eyes

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #454 on: November 24, 2010, 07:59:19 PM »

Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?
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TechMan

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #455 on: November 24, 2010, 08:14:31 PM »
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?


I do believe they did just blink, because the MSM is saying that there where not that many opt-outs today so the protest wasn't affective.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #456 on: November 24, 2010, 08:50:20 PM »
Quote
MicroBalrog, that's what I've read and heard from probably hundreds of sources since the 9/11 attacks. Would you mind detailing what is wrong with what I posted?

In my experience, passengers are searched/patted down thoroughly, and their checked luggage is inspected in detail (as in they will run it through an X-ray machine and then open it and inspect it in your presence, sometimes twice by separate agents. GSS personnel will question not only the passenger leaving the airport, but persons accompanying them, asking what they did in the country, where they went, what sites did they visit etc. I was questioned in detail both times when I accompanied my fiancee to the airport. This is in addition to the metal detectors/etc. at the entry to the airport. This was of course at a time before these new X-ray machines, so these were not present.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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erictank

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #457 on: November 24, 2010, 09:27:31 PM »
Folks on gizmodo are reporting that the backscatter machines are shut down in many airports:

http://gizmodo.com/comment/33032822

Did the TSA just blink in the face of Opt-Out Day?

Blogger Bob over on Propaganda Village (FT&T's term for the TSA blog, at http://blog.tsa.gov/) claims that National Opt-Out day was an utter failure, that opt-outs were very few and far between (even moreso than normal) and that indications are that the American public at large thinks that the whole issue is overblown, at best.  He makes no mention of the documented fact that many airports with nude-o-scopes had them out-of-service for the day, that those which used them at all did so FAR less often than they had last week,, that screeners were under orders to be in their VERY BEST BEHAVIOR for a change, that the frisks were FAR less bad-mannered and intrusive and rough than they were last week, and that some of Blogger Bob's claims for opt-out numbers are UTTER FABRICATIONS, according to people who were actually at some of the airports he listed as having next-to-no opt-outs (he claimed no opt-outs at Denver, for example, and someone who was one of 5 opt-outs to go through at or around the same time called him on it in the comments).  He attempts to make opting-out to be about opting out of the FRISK, rather than the nude-o-scope.  He ignores that all the people not chosen for nude-o-scope CAN'T opt-out.  He ignores that air-travel levels are *WAY* down from last year - multiple flyers commented on FT&T about being able to change their tickets to pretty much wherever they wanted to, when they could not last year.

Real reports from the field seem to indicate that TSA did indeed blink.  And is now attempting to deny that they did. ;/

TommyGunn

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #458 on: November 24, 2010, 11:41:08 PM »
What is our ratio of flights compared to Israel's, and what is the ratio of our number of screening agents compared to theirs? It sounds like you're throwing out a blanket "200 fold" when we don't know the numbers. We have, what, 65,000 TSA agents now? How many have the Israeli's?

I heard the figures on a radio report but I don't recall them at this point.  The real point of my post was not scientific accuracy but simply to point out that Israel is a small country and their air traffic is much less than ours.

I despise what's happening with air security and have heard many media reports that make me want to cringe.  I'm not certain I have any great solutions for what's going on; I simply think we're putting on "security theater" and that if/when the terrorists want to hit us again they'll find a "work-around" to get by the security or simply attack in a different way, or a different area of society, and then like idiot robots we'll get ticked and go provide more "security theater" where-ever else that is.....
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #459 on: November 24, 2010, 11:55:38 PM »
Obviously there's no solution to this yet. But I don't believe simply circumventing the system is going to make it better. You will never get enough people to stop flying to make a difference IMO. But a small but determined majority, raising as much hell as possible whenever they are forced to endure this unconstitutional expansion of powers, might make a difference. I'm basically just waiting for a chance to fly so I can do some "direct action."

Both approaches should be implemented, obviously.

Don't know how many of you have noticed the TV coverage of the TSA today.  What really has drawn my attention is the broadcasting of actual TSA goons conducting actual nekkid-picture scans and body-gropes.

Yes, the TV has shown the actual search procedures.  A few of them are not even putting the shadow circle around te hands as they do breasts and crotches, or over the juicy bits as they show the actual nekkid-picture scan screens.

Excellent. It's as if the TV news-folk are on our side. Maybe they do a lot of flying.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #460 on: November 25, 2010, 12:11:11 AM »
I heard the figures on a radio report but I don't recall them at this point.  The real point of my post was not scientific accuracy but simply to point out that Israel is a small country and their air traffic is much less than ours.

I despise what's happening with air security and have heard many media reports that make me want to cringe.  I'm not certain I have any great solutions for what's going on; I simply think we're putting on "security theater" and that if/when the terrorists want to hit us again they'll find a "work-around" to get by the security or simply attack in a different way

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MicroBalrog

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #461 on: November 25, 2010, 12:12:21 AM »
And for something more obscure:

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Matthew Carberry

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #462 on: November 25, 2010, 01:46:00 AM »
Wait til a high travel day and put suicide (hell non-suicide would work) bombers with tens of pounds of semtex and ball bearings in their luggage into the lines of hundreds of folks waiting for screening, waiting for bag check or ticketing, waiting for arriving loved ones and waiting to pick up bags, all in non-secured areas.

Fire off sequentially or simultaneously depending on the flow of panicked crowds.

Then trigger the car bombs on the arrival and departure ramps after the survivors flood the exits.

Then wait a bit and blow the IEDs on the access roads to kill the first responders.

Then have the folks with fake IDs, even now still getting flight line jobs, blow up loaded aircraft at the gates and/or drive loaded fuel trucks into the aircraft stacked for takeoff and post-explosion being held on taxiways and watch those travellers burn to death.

Chance of it being caught by security kabuki?

-Zero-

Planeloads of people killed or maimed at even just one airport?  Hard to total.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #463 on: November 25, 2010, 02:17:29 AM »
Which brings us to how REAL security works.

Dozens of people like this, training, organizing these acts... dozens of people needed to recruit them.... dozens of people helping in the logistical aspects.. this is where such an operation would rise or fall.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Matthew Carberry

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #464 on: November 25, 2010, 02:21:56 AM »
Which brings us to how REAL security works.

Dozens of people like this, training, organizing these acts... dozens of people needed to recruit them.... dozens of people helping in the logistical aspects.. this is where such an operation would rise or fall.

Exactly.

But let's keep missing test objects in carry-ons at the same rate as private screeners pre-9/11 while molesting children and the elderly using methods that wouldn't even prevent the actual failed threats we are supposedly reacting to.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

vaskidmark

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #465 on: November 25, 2010, 07:32:34 AM »
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=232457

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Syphilis, lice, gonorrhea, ringworm, chlamydia, staph, strep, noro and papilloma viruses all are part of the possible fringe benefits when airline passengers next go through a full hands-on pat-down by agents of the federal government's Transportation Security Administration, according to doctors.

WND reported two days ago on alarmed passengers who noted that TSA agents doing the pat-downs that have been described by critics as molestation since they include touching private body parts were not changing gloves between passengers. In fact, some apparently were patting down dozens of passengers or more wearing the same gloves.

But neither the TSA nor federal agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control was willing to comment on the possibilities that infections and other loathsome afflictions could be passed from passenger to passenger.


1 - Granted WND is not the most authritative source out there.

2 - do not click the link if you do not want to view a close-up photo of a louse (6-legged)

3 - Ewwwwwwwww!  Icky!

4 - Yes, folks were supposed to be demanding that the gropers change gloves, but I'm not hearing/seeing a whole lot of that happening.

5 - If you come down with something, could you sue TSA?  Even more importantly, will your significant other believe you?

stay safe.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #466 on: November 25, 2010, 07:50:50 AM »
point 1 was well taken    its always bad when you start with wnd  is newmax in concurrence? how about mr jones?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Jamisjockey

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #467 on: November 25, 2010, 09:06:36 AM »
point 1 was well taken    its always bad when you start with wnd  is newmax in concurrence? how about mr jones?

Why are you so desperate to defend the fed.gov on this one?
JD

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #468 on: November 25, 2010, 09:20:20 AM »
me desperate?!  you see how strong the protest was at  regan/national yesterday? theres is an element of desperation here  but ....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/24/AR2010112406989.html?hpid%3Dnewswell&sub=AR
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Jamisjockey

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #469 on: November 25, 2010, 09:53:10 AM »
Again, you're desperatly deflecting the arguments presented and engaging in ad hom attacks. 
Maybe I missed your counter arguement in the pages and pages that the discussion has become. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #470 on: November 25, 2010, 09:59:19 AM »
the counter to?
the courts have ruled . till someone figures a way to change that ....?
so far there isn't even much smoke here   much less fire
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

dogmush

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #471 on: November 25, 2010, 10:12:42 AM »
the courts have ruled . till someone figures a way to change that ....?

We have figured out a way to change that.  Get enough people riled up and pissed off, then turn that pissed on congress (or Executive branch) untill they tell TSA to quit. (or disband it)  If that fails, fire the legislators (or executive) and repeat with the new hires.

This is Phase I.

Welcome to plan.

Remember: The first rule of the Revolution is we don't talk about the Revolution.  Also the new guy brings the beer.

TommyGunn

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #472 on: November 25, 2010, 11:08:47 AM »
And for something more obscure:



I see it's a type of "saper" mine from the URL.
Yeah, something like this.  The Stinger ... or Redeye  missile was another thought; I'm not too sure how many there are out in the black and grey markets.  I think the Russkies have one (they used to have something called a "Strella" but I don't know about their more modern versions).
But I have thought about a plane being loaded with passengers that have all been anally probed, X-rayed, felt-up, examined via tricorder, and sniffer tested, and then the plane takes off .... and at the end of the runway up pops a terrorist with a shoulder launched SAM and *BOOM!!* the plane goes down into the East River.....
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Jamisjockey

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #473 on: November 25, 2010, 11:16:05 AM »
We have figured out a way to change that.  Get enough people riled up and pissed off, then turn that pissed on congress (or Executive branch) untill they tell TSA to quit. (or disband it)  If that fails, fire the legislators (or executive) and repeat with the new hires.

This is Phase I.

Welcome to plan.

Remember: The first rule of the Revolution is we don't talk about the Revolution.  Also the new guy brings the beer.

This.

The courts are wrong.  Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA Super Thread
« Reply #474 on: November 25, 2010, 12:00:06 PM »
Get enough people riled up and pissed off,


phase one is not working  you had one guy at regan yesterday
where was there a stronger showing?




The courts are wrong.  Wearing a black robe doesn't make one right every time.
thinking they are wrong generates lil traction  unless you can get another ruling  supreme court is where you gotta go and i wouldn't get your hopes up there
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I