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Author Topic: Oil: 5w30 vs 10w30  (Read 4343 times)
mtnbkr
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« on: April 11, 2006, 05:45:07 AM »

I agonize over details.

My Camry claims to need 5w30 (yes, it told me this).  The manual says I can use 10w30 if it's all that's available, but I should switch back at the next oil change.  The reasoning for 5w30 is for improved cold weather starts and better fuel economy.

I plan on using Mobil1 and running the max oil change interval (7500miles).  My driving doesn't fall under the "severe" duty category (towing, multiple short trips at below freezing temps, and dirt roads).  Synthetic flows better than dino oil, so M1 10w30 should meet those requirements.  The temp ranges (as given by the manaul) for 10w30 are a closer match to this region than 5w30, but either range covers this region (temps from high 20s to low 100s).  It's a very gray area.  I don't know if I should run the thinner oil since it's a newer and tighter engine or go with what I know.  

FWIW, my 97 4Runner also calls for 5w30, but I run 10w30 M1 and change the oil every 5k miles.  At 130k miles, it uses less than 1qt per oil change (usually about half a quart) and runs great.  

The folks on the toyota board seem to go either way.

A side benefit of using 10w30 is not having to stock two different oils.

What would you do?

Chris
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charby
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2006, 06:19:24 AM »

I pay for my oil changes, not that I am lazy but by the time you buy the oil, filter, get dirty then try to dispose of it, those coupons for $14.50 oil changes are nice. Both of my vehicles Chev S-10 and Pontiac Sunbird both require 5w-30, its on the S-10 oil cap and the factory a while ago put out a statement that all 6 and 4 cyl GM products should use 5w-30. I usually keep a case on hand because the truck uses a bit of oil, 1 qt every 1500 miles.

When I used to change my own oil I used 5w-30 in the winter months and 10w-30 in the summer months as a rule of thumb. The only other motor oil I keep around is 30w for the bar on the chainsaw. I do use synthetic oil in my snow blower just because its a 10hp pull start and its just a wee bit easier to pull start it when its below 10 F.

I would just stick with what the manual sez, tolerances are much tighter on newer motors than the past so thinner oil is required to flow into the smaller passages.

Charby
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zahc
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2006, 07:05:16 AM »

Flip a coin.

I honestly think it's not worth worrying about. Go with whichever is most convenient.
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yesterdaysyouth
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2006, 07:26:16 AM »

seeing as how it's 70 degrees right now, i don't think it's gonna matter....

until it's less than 32 degrees that oil is 30w reguardless...
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280plus
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2006, 07:55:00 AM »

I too have heard that todays motors like 5W-30 better. Better gas mileage IIRC...
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2006, 08:18:58 AM »

Stop and go traffic on 66 really does qualify as severe duty use

I go with what my owner's manual recommends, which is 5w-30.

I figure they built the damned thing, they ought to know.
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2006, 08:32:24 AM »

Quote
Stop and go traffic on 66 really does qualify as severe duty use
According to my manual, only towing, SHORT trips when the temp is below freezing, and dusty (ie dirt) roads are severe duty.  Everything else is "normal".  

In the past, stop and go on I66 would qualify as severe, but not anymore according to my manual.

Chris
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2006, 09:00:26 AM »

I would go with the 5w30. At operating temp either 10w30 or 5w30 will be 30 anyway. My theory is to make it flow as easy as possible when the engine is cold.
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fistful
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2006, 09:21:44 AM »

Dude, 5w verses 10w?  Like how can you even ask?  10w so totally always wins, cause like its just twice as more, dude!

When 5w kills a ninja, it just uses the hide, when 10w kills a ninja it uses every part.
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2006, 09:25:28 AM »

I'm leaning towards 5w30 because that's what the manual sez, but I'm nervous that it won't hold up as well as 10w30.  

Going to 10w30 was tough enough given that I'd always run 30w or 20w50 in my Beetle.  I'm going to be a wreck the first time a manual tells me to use 5w20 (it's coming...).

Chris
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Larry Ashcraft
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2006, 10:01:16 AM »

When I bought my F150 new, it called for 5-30.  I used it for 100k miles and my mechanic advised me to change to 10-30 because of the wear in the engine.  I did and she's still going strong at 180k.  Uses about one quart every 2000 miles.
Quote from: yesterdaysyouth
until it's less than 32 degrees that oil is 30w reguardless...
I think it's the other way around.  Its actual viscosity is 5w or 10w, but when it gets hot, it has the lubricating properties of 30w.
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2006, 10:22:48 AM »

Larry, that's correct.  It's "Viscosity Improvers" that bring it up to 30w.  When those wear out, that's what causes sludge.  The theory is that by going with an oil where the two numbers are closer, you have fewer VI and that means less propensity to break down.

Chris
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Waitone
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2006, 10:42:18 AM »

I've been through the drill.  I changed from 5w to 10w once my truck hit 100,000 miles in spite of the manual's opinion.  Can't tell the difference.
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2006, 11:30:08 AM »

"When 5w kills a ninja, it just uses the hide, when 10w kills a ninja it uses every part."

Shoot, boy, my SEEL buddies EAT ninjas for breakfast!


Interesting on the new defintion of severe duty.
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Harold Tuttle
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2006, 11:34:13 AM »

you realize that this is a camry right?
95 percent of camry owners go to jiffy lube and do not worry about 5w vs 10w

get mobil 1 5w and change it every 5k

you will be fine
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 11:37:16 AM »

I figure at the rate he's banging it up already it's only going to have to last two or three oil changes, Harold. Cheesy
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 11:54:32 AM »

Quote
Interesting on the new defintion of severe duty.
Surprised me as well.  

Quote
you realize that this is a camry right?
95 percent of camry owners go to jiffy lube and do not worry about 5w vs 10w
Yeah, I know.  I'm the other 5%. Smiley

Quote
I figure at the rate he's banging it up already it's only going to have to last two or three oil changes
I am not the one banging it up. Tongue

Chris
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2006, 02:37:02 PM »

I do my own oil changes.  No, the money savings isn't worth my time, but knowing what oil and filter were put in my car, (and properly at that) gives me worthwhile peace of mind.

I had the inside track on certain local oil change places for many years.  Scary, what those guys do and what they smoke while working!
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skyder
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2006, 02:28:38 AM »

Just to further muddy the water,  you could go over to
bobistheoilguy.com
and wander around in there.
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Harold Tuttle
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2006, 03:01:51 AM »

a magic elixir for the oil retentive:
amsoil
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/default.aspx
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil (ASL) delivers extraordinary lubrication in all types of automotive gasoline engines. By combining the industry premier synthetic technology with AMSOIL premium additives, AMSOIL ASL exceeds the higher performance demands of modern engines. It withstands the stress of higher horsepower, higher heat and complicated emission control systems. AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil consistently outperforms competitive conventional and synthetic motor oils. It delivers long-lasting performance and protection.

AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the worlds first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL The First in Synthetics® to do the best job protecting your engine.

Extends Drain Intervals
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil can extend drain intervals far beyond those recommended for conventional oils. Its unique synthetic formulation and long drain additive system are very stable, resisting oxidation and neutralizing acids. AMSOIL ASL delivers the best possible engine protection, cleanliness and performance over extended drain intervals, reducing vehicle maintenance and waste oil disposal costs.

Maximizes Fuel Economy
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil is designed to maximize energy efficiency for improved fuel economy. Unlike conventional oils, its uniform molecular structure helps it flow more freely and reduce friction between metal surfaces. Anti-friction additives are included to further improve energy efficiency.

Reduces Engine Wear
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil provides outstanding anti-wear protection. It has excellent viscosity film strength to separate metal surfaces and robust anti-wear additives to further reduce wear in metal-to-metal contact regions for improved engine life.

Reduces Oil Consumption and Emissions
Evaporation (volatility) occurs when oil gets hot, causing high oil consumption and emissions. AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil has the lowest evaporation rate of the oils tested, making it the best at controlling evaporationrelated oil consumption and emissions (see chart below).

Excels in Extreme Temperatures
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil resists thermal (heat) breakdown better than conventional oils. It is heavily fortified with detergent and dispersant additives to prevent sludge deposits and keep engines clean. And unlike conventional oils, AMSOIL ASL contains no wax. It stays fluid down to -60°F for improved cold temperature oil flow, reduced bearing wear and easier starting
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2006, 04:25:32 AM »

Quote from: skyder
Just to further muddy the water,  you could go over to
bobistheoilguy.com
and wander around in there.
I did that before I even posted here. Smiley

Quote
a magic elixir for the oil retentive
not really.  One of my requirements is that I can find it relatively easy.  That's why I stick with Mobil1.  It may or may not be the best, but when I NEED a quart, I can get one just about anywhere.  If it weren't for that, I'd have a choice of Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, etc.

Chris
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Art Eatman
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2006, 08:43:08 AM »

In 1969, I ran a Formula Ford in SCCA.  I used Castrol GTX 20-50.  No engine failures, that year or thereafter.  I used it in my VW Buses and other cars.  I was still using it in 1985 when I bought the "White Rat", my Toyota 4WD PU.  288,000 miles on it.  Original crank, standard bearings.  Oil's cheap, compared to engine parts.  So, I changed oil every 3,000 to 3,500 miles.  Still using GTX.  Why bother to quit a Good Thing?

I bought a 2000 GMC full size PU in January, 2004; 50K miles.  I've put some 54,000 miles on it.  I'm running Castrol Synthetic, 10-30.  Same oil pressure on the gauge now as when I bought it.  The computer let me run 7,500, one time, before the "Change my diaper" light came on.  I generally figure on 5,, just on general principles.

Oh.  The deal with multi-viscosity oil:  5-30 means thayt when it's cold, it flows as easily as 5 viscosity.  When it's hot, it flows as 30 viscosity.  It's not thick and goopy when cold, but it performs with the proper separation-strength when it's hot.  (The crank, rods, cam and lifters all float on a thin layer of oil.  Better machine tools in manufacture means an engine can have tighter clearances and better uniformity, so thinner oil can be used.)
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2006, 03:24:41 PM »

Back in the day, Sales Reps would get new cars, not uncommon to put 50K to 70K a year on one. So Sales Reps got new Buicks, Chevy's, Fords...model determination was more of trunk size bit.

So The Camry came out and the lines "changed", as did a lot of matters in regard to sales reps.

At 300K miles a few guys kept the car and let kids needing HS/ College cars use them. Most of us grew up with Castrol, and many of us just flat dislike anything Esso...Mobil was okay back in the day, when merged Mobil got the axe.

One Camry went 900k miles until - of all things - a dump truck rolled not only into, but "onto" while parked. All this Camry ever used was 5w-30 GTX every 4K miles while "on the road" then 3K or 3 months as a College Car.

My Olds went 190K with GTX , 5w-30 then at 150K  went to 10w-30. I sold it, car went 350K total until ...worth more as parts, than getting fixed from getting hit. Engine went to inboard boat set up, trannie for a rebuild on a Truck.

Old man "Doc" a sales rep, said when he got 400k miles on a Olds, he would get himself a Benz. He was a Castrol fan too. His Daughter's car was a Camry he bought with 200k miles...his daughter liked to change her own oil so he bought her cases of GTX 5w-30 and a case of filters to "start the kid out right".

Doc's goal was to put a million miles on that Benz - when done, retire. Liar, he went over a Million miles by 30k....He gave the car to his landscape feller...with cases of Castrol, filters, and Gold Dunhill Lighter.
"Lighter was always in that Benz, not right to remove it".

My truck is a '93 with 136K.  Except for dealer oil changes when new, Castrol 5w-30. I have used Castrol Syntec 0w-30, have used Syntec 5w-30, run the blend too. Hey, I was gettng the Castrol in trade along with the Wix filters, my preference , with AC Delco being the next choice.

Mine seems to prefer Dino over Syn for some odd reason...does not use oil b/t changes. For my long hauls , I prefer to run the Synthetic, or at least a Syntec blend. I had two cases of GTX 5w-30 exchanged for services rendered last time ( out of Syntec at the time) *shrug* it'll run...not going to worry about it.

Best kept secret is Chevron and Havoline - dino , synthetic blend or synthetic. One of my "road vehicles" used nothing but Havoline, Supplier out of Castrol and Havoline more ready avail where this vehicle kept, so mechanic just ordered a pallet for "these vehicles" he kept up with.
One of "our" Camry's , a 4 banger, made it to 200k miles with Havoline Dino 5w-30 until it was wrecked, engine fine, just the rest of the car allergic to snow covered ditches...

"Earl ain't Esso" is my book.
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Felonious Monk/Fignozzle
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2006, 03:10:17 AM »

Art, sm -- whole bunch o' +1 's on that.

I use the KISS method.  Castrol GTX, 20w50 in summer, 10w40 in winter.  When I hit a multiple of 5k, it's time for an oil change.
Ran a brand new '85 Toyota Corolla 330,000 miles before the odometer stopped working, and a year and a half more after that.
I've got 171k on my '91 Volvo 240 sedan, sounds almost as good as the '92 wagon with 102k.  Both sound like quiet little sewing machines as I run my 73 mile commute at speeds frequently approaching 3 digits.

Very hard to go wrong with Castrol.  Never used the fake stuff personally, why bother given the results I've had?
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Mike Irwin
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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2006, 03:39:06 AM »

I used to use Castrol all the time, but many years ago switched to Valvoline.
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