How Much Ammo Do I Need In Case SHTF?

[freakazoid]

Zombie apocalypse. Target rich environment. Although I think you are seriously lacking in ammo in that regards.

[AJ Dual]

I'm prepping for my hobby of shooting...a lot, other than that, nothing in particular :)

Essentially it's the same here.

Although, one could probably conserve ammo a lot, if they were to arrange things so as to funnel any attackers of their post-SHTF redoubt into nice tight single-file rows.

Then just a few shots of magnum caliber FMJ should suffice, as it would pass through several of them for each shot. 

[wmenorr67]

Essentially it's the same here.

Although, one could probably conserve ammo a lot, if they were to arrange things so as to funnel any attackers of their post-SHTF redoubt into nice tight single-file rows.

Then just a few shots of magnum caliber FMJ should suffice, as it would pass through several of them for each shot. 

Stack 'em like cord wood.

[AJ Dual]

"I've only got one bullet left, I'm waiting for them to line up..."

[birdman]

"I've only got one bullet left, I'm waiting for them to line up..."

The actual quote (after saying he had one shot left and his partner saying there were "a hundred satanists") was "I'm hoping for a couple of lucky ricochets" :)

[AJ Dual]

No, "waiting for them to line up" that's from "Dori Day Afternoon" the one where they get stuck in the middle of a bank robbery, and he only has one round left, because he used the other five to herd/shoot the suicidal jumper off the ledge earlier.

Oh, and sorry everyone, apparently now this is a "Sledge Hammer!"-thread. 

[SADShooter]

Time to pull out the complete DVD set.

[birdman]

No, "waiting for them to line up" that's from "Dori Day Afternoon" the one where they get stuck in the middle of a bank robbery, and he only has one round left, because he used the other five to herd/shoot the suicidal jumper off the ledge earlier.

Oh, and sorry everyone, apparently now this is a "Sledge Hammer!"-thread. 

Oh yeah!  Forgot that one...I thought you were referring to the satanist one.  Come to think of it, how many times did he only have one shot left?

[AJ Dual]

Probably a lot. 

[MechAg94]

Well, I don't know the "right" answer, but I don't like having less than 1k rounds per weapon (preferably 2k), plus 5k in 5.56 and 10k of 22LR.  And a minimum of 5 magazines (10+ preferable) per weapon, 20+ for common ones (AR, FAL, etc).

No disagreement, but after you do that with a few different calibers and a couple guns per caliber, you can probably slow down a bit.   

[RevDisk]

Well, I don't know the "right" answer, but I don't like having less than 1k rounds per weapon (preferably 2k), plus 5k in 5.56 and 10k of 22LR.  And a minimum of 5 magazines (10+ preferable) per weapon, 20+ for common ones (AR, FAL, etc).

This.  Mags are as important as ammo.  Rule of thumb, spend between 50% and 100% of the weapon's value on mags. I keep plenty of 9mm, .40, 5.56 and .308 on hand. I suppose I should up my .45 as well, but I don't use it much. I do need to up my 12 gauge ammo stock, any suggestions are welcome.

[wmenorr67]

Flechette rounds

[birdman]

No disagreement, but after you do that with a few different calibers and a couple guns per caliber, you can probably slow down a bit.   

Hmm... 22LR, 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, 5.7, 5.56, 7.62, 338LM, 12ga...I have an impulse buying problem...

[AJ Dual]

Flechette rounds

Overrated, unless dispensed in artillery quantities, and at velocities higher than most handheld firearms can produce. The surplus ones folks like to stuff into 12ga, half of them don't even turn around before reaching the target, and they have poor penetration. And a fair number are just stuck in by the tips when shot at things like soft pine lumber. It's possible they may have a purpose in ambush breaking in dense foliage, but that presumes you've got lots of buddies to press any gap it makes in the enemy.

I had some from here: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM005-1.html I've shot a few loads of them from a 12ga for grins, (Don't tell my club please...  ) and at 50 yards about 30% of them were still going through the paper sideways.

Propelled by explosives? Assuming they don't get bent on detonation, and you could somehow keep them oriented and from spinning, then it would be nasty. But I don't have any explosives...    (kicks at dirt dejectedly)

Now the individual flechettes that mass as much as a traditional bullet, or more, and ride in a sabot showed some promise, however, even they lacked in terminal performance, and the sabot pieces pelting friendlies to the sides of your firing lane was a problem too.  Anyway, nothing the flechettes did was found to be worth the effort or expense of

I'm intrigued by long, long, long bullets that are low in caliber, high in mass, and have good sectional density. Especially if they have an air-pocket tip so they tumble like the Soviet/Russian 5.45x39 is supposed to do. It's somewhat "dart like" in a way, but still has all the benefits of being an actual bullet.

[Jamisjockey]

Chris you can stock up on 00 buck at walmart, etc. Value packs of buck are usually sub $15 (for 15 rounds).  Comes in a green box.

[AJ Dual]

Estate, Rio, Nobelsport, and Centurion have good bulk deals online too. Much, much better than $1 a round which is about as good as you can do at Walmart on defensive/hunting 12ga.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/250rds-12-gauge-nobelsport-le-2-34-12-pellet-00-buckshot/cName/12-gauge-2-34-buckshot

The Saiga 12 folks who are always looking for cheap ways to feed their big box magazines and drums seem pretty happy with some of these offerings.

And Nobelsport also has a solid .65 caliber ball option that's very cheap too.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/120_259_206/products_id/5109

IMO, the only thing less expensive than Nobelsport when it comes to buckshot or solids is rolling your own loads from components and once-fired hulls. Primers, wads, powder, and scrap lead... if you can find the once fired hulls for free, or you're reusing your own, then it gets down to around $.16 a shell or so. Also note, they need not be premium "high brass" hulls. It's more of a marketing affectation these days. The plastic of the hull, and the bolt/chamber of the shotgun really is what's providing all the support anyway. Low brass will fire a slug or buckshot load just as well as high brass will. It's a hold over from the old days of paper shells, and wound Damascus steel shotguns when the brass actually did provide some modicum of extra support. Now it's just tradition. And a place for the extractor to grab onto.

They never caught on but Activ even produced an all plastic shotshell for several years. (It did have a metal washer molded into the base for primer support, but that's it...) They went out of business, but their shells worked just as well as anyone else's and were just as reloadable too. As ammo costs keep going up, I expect some of the makers to get back into all plastic shells eventually. IMO, not really a bad idea. It's just that much less metal to corrode IMO.

Anyway... at reloading prices, it's VERY EASY to recoup the costs of a melter pot, a mold, and a Lee Load-All II (around $120, give or take...) in just a few hundred rounds. And in general, shotshell reloading is easier and somewhat more forgiving a process than centerfire brass cartridge reloading in certain ways. And you may have some VERY LUCRATIVE equipment and skills come SHTF, or even just a prolonged economic downturn. And it's much cheaper to stockpile components than it is finished ammunition. And easier to spread out the costs too. Primers one month, hulls another, scrap lead wherever you find it, powder when it's on sale, wads are always cheap... etc.

[Ben]

Estate, Rio, Nobelsport, and Centurion have good bulk deals online too.

Estate is some good ammo. I bought a couple of cases of 00 and 000 (based on recommendations here) the last time Cabelas had a sale on them. As an aside, one would not think of Cabelas as the cheapest place to buy ammo, but I have gotten some really good deals there during sales.

[41magsnub]

My only shortage is in 12ga.  I have around 500rds of various birdshot but >20rds of social ammo.

I should get at least a case of something to have on hand.

I also have a bad habit of when I buy longs guns getting the larger model.  Example is my AR-15, there are AR-10's that weigh less than this thing.  It is an M16A4 pattern but with a very heavy bull barrel.  The barrel is only very slightly less diameter than the A2 flash suppressor.  Accurate as all get out and fun to shoot, but one of these days I need to build up the stripped lower sitting in my safe into an M4orgery.  That would be more useful than the clunker if I had to move around.

[MechAg94]

I think that about my Vepr K sometimes.  I have a Saiga that needs to be converted to be the light weight version.

I am short of 12 gauge also.  However, all I have a in an 870.  No self defense models at all.  I'll have to look for the WalMart 12 gauge. 

[Boomhauer]

Find some ammo that patterns well and stock up.

Buck and slugs, buck and slugs...

My rule is that if I'm running low on ammo is to buy a couple boxes a week plus a mag for the weapon in question.

No such thing as too much ammo or mags. For fighting rifles, I like 1K or above plus 15-20 mags. For pistols 250 rds or so is easily comfortable (it's a secondary weapon) and 5-10 mags. For shotguns 500 rds should be sufficient (250 each of buck and slugs). For .22LR I like 5000 rds and 5 mags per weapon (at a minimum).

.22LR, 5.56, 9mm, and 12 ga are the calibers I stock up on. The oddball calibers (7.62x54R, .30-30, etc) that I have are guns for historical or sentimental reasons. I have plenty of each on hand usually, but they don't figure into defensive plans for me.

Don't forget spare parts (extractors and a bolt for an AR-15, the o-rings for an 11-87, and so on). You want to have these on hand JIC. Most modern weapons will go pretty long between failures, but it's all just in case...

And that should see you through most anything.

[slingshot]

I am not preparing for the ultimate SHTF because I don't believe it will ever happen in the USA short of a world war where we loose.

I base my purchases on my shooting habits.  I honestly believe a few hundred rounds is about all you need for any "normal" SHTF event.  So big deal, you have 20,000 rounds of 223....  can you carry that?  If you were loading up your vehicle to "bug out", would you haul that much ammo even if you owned it?  I would rather have food and the means to purify water.

In the vein of the article, I think your best choices are the common calibers if you want to cache away some ammo for whatever need.  But I agree with the 22LR suggestion.