Author Topic: Zimmerman Free on Bond  (Read 23042 times)

Chester32141

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Zimmerman Free on Bond
« on: April 23, 2012, 08:36:35 AM »
Bail was set for $150,000 and he is allowed to reside anywhere in the country.  DA asked for $1,000,000 bond.  Is there anything to be learned from bond being set at $150g v. $1mil ?  From what I heard of the bond hearing Friday it sounded like Zimmerman was a pretty good person, even mentored black kids in the ghetto against his family's safety concerns.  Also sounds like he has competent representation.  The photos of the bloodied back of his head make it pretty easy to see why his self defense claim was accepted by the police ...  
[popcorn]

http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-released-florida-jail-150-000-bond-044511022--abc-news-topstories.html

« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 09:51:56 AM by Chester32141 »
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roo_ster

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 08:51:14 AM »
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/the-george-zimmerman-bail-hearing.html

Ouch.  Read the whole thing for the whole deal.

Quote
This was a ghastly opening day for Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, who seemed unprepared and admitted as much:

Quote
"Mr. Gilbreath, I didn't know we were going to be trying the case, I'm going to add up -- I apologize."

Hello!  Maybe the prosecutor should have prepped himself by reading up on 'Arthur' hearings:

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Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said Zimmerman was not necessarily entitled to release on bail. He faces up to life in prison for second-degree murder, a crime for which suspects in Florida are not usually afforded bail.

But if Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, wants to oppose his release, she will have to preview at least some of the evidence the state has against Zimmerman in proceedings known in Florida as an Arthur hearing, Weiner said.

“The state has the burden of proof to go forward and convince the judge that proof of guilt is evident and that the presumption of guilt is great … That’s what this hearing is about,” Weiner said.

Well, maybe the prosecution got the wrong instructional video.

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

 - the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

 -  the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape (My 'told you so' moment).

Among the rays of light for the prosection was this:

Quote
UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la Rionda]: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.

..........

ALWAYS WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT: A comedy highlight - defense counsel O'Mara has co-lead investigator Gilbrath on the stand:

Quote
O'MARA: Ok. Have you ever had your nose broken?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that.

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them?

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

O'MARA: Do you want a copy of them?

GILBREATH: Sure.

O'MARA: I'll give them to the state. It's a more appropriate way to do it. If you haven't had them yet, I don't want to cross you on them.

Send better rodeo clowns.

YOU KNOW THAT'S RIGHT: From the conclusion of the prosecutor's closing statement:

Quote
I'm not here to argue all the facts, obviously.



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Ned Hamford

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 08:57:30 AM »
 [popcorn]
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 09:15:43 AM »
Keep this one on topic and without personal attack. If it goes out of control, there will be time outs issued.



I think the lower bond shows the judge doesn't think he's a flight risk, nor that he is at risk of commiting further crimes while on bond. 
Oh, and the $1mil bond request lowers my confidince in the intent of the DA. 


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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 09:38:18 AM »
That is a brilliant openong defense move - he would have bet on no one being prepared for the bail hearing, and now he's set them up to look like they are reversing themselves at trial.  Tricky defense lawyer move that, were it in the movies, audiences would hate.  But good tactics.

Given that bail was actually opposed on substantive grounds and the prosecution was totally unprepared for it, the grant of reasonable bail terms isn't that suprising. 

It probably will mean less at trial than it does in the news now, where total surprise wont be possible.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 10:18:18 AM »
That is a brilliant openong defense move - he would have bet on no one being prepared for the bail hearing, and now he's set them up to look like they are reversing themselves at trial.  Tricky defense lawyer move that, were it in the movies, audiences would hate.  But good tactics.

Given that bail was actually opposed on substantive grounds and the prosecution was totally unprepared for it, the grant of reasonable bail terms isn't that suprising. 

It probably will mean less at trial than it does in the news now, where total surprise wont be possible.

Hmm.  [popcorn]

I do agree that the prosecution being unprepared could be simple oversight, not expecting factual or evidentiary arguments at a bail hearing.

Or, perhaps considering it's such a high profile trial, they should have been prepared for anything? Simple incompetence, or just "too many cooks stirring the pot", and the prosecutorial side has failed to adequately assign responsibilities, or clear chains of command?

Could be indicative of the prosecution side finding this case to be a crap sandwich all around, and they're collectively shirking taking a bite here.

Or, this lends just a teeny bit of potential credence to my theory that the prosecution may actually have just thrown the Zimmerman case into the court's lap out of appeasement and a half-hearted "chips fall where they may" strategy after all.
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HankB

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 10:54:41 AM »
. . . Or, perhaps considering it's such a high profile trial, they should have been prepared for anything? Simple incompetence, or just "too many cooks stirring the pot", and the prosecutorial side has failed to adequately assign responsibilities, or clear chains of command? . . .
Given the high-level intrusion of politics, I'd guess that nobody wants to take initiative - i.e., people will do exactly the specific tasks they're assigned, and no more, and they'll do them in exactly the manner in which they're specifically instructed; it's probably "CYA" time in the DA's office.

Note also that they're on the 3rd judge in the rotation - the first one was very sure to bring up her possible conflict of interest, and the next judge in the rotation indicated that he had a possible conflict, too. It's almost as if everyone involved senses that between politics and protests, involvement with this case has very little upside, and lots of downside. (I think that will hold true no matter the ultimate outcome.)

What I found very telling in other coverage is that at the hearing the prosecution admitted that they had no evidence as to who actually started the fight between Martin and Zimmerman.

Quote
UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la Rionda]: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.
Does this suggest that the prosecution did not have access to the picture of Zimmerman's bloody head, shown in the OP? Combined with the medical records of a broken nose that the defense is apparently going to provide and the eyewitness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman whilst beating him, this would seem to go a long way towards supporting Zimmerman's statements unless the prosecution has evidence that hasn't been released yet.

(BTW, have the results of Martin's autopsy been released? It's been a couple of months, and besides actual cause of death, wouldn't they have done a tox and drug screen? Be interesting to know the results, considering Martin was on school suspension for a minor drug offense.)
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Tallpine

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 11:19:21 AM »
Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted by the media, so why should the prosecution have to prove its case against him?  ;/
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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 11:27:15 AM »
Quote
Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted by the media, so why should the prosecution have to prove its case against him?

I've been saying that to my wife since this case got started, but she doesn't care (and lets me know that).

Even if he's 100% innocent, and it was 100% self defense, he's going to get some sort of punishment. They can't just let him get away with self defense after all of the publicity. A change of venue wouldn't help. He'd have to get a jury with a makeup unlike most juries

Any educated refutals to that statement?

makattak

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 11:30:18 AM »
I've been saying that to my wife since this case got started, but she doesn't care (and lets me know that).

Even if he's 100% innocent, and it was 100% self defense, he's going to get some sort of punishment. They can't just let him get away with self defense after all of the publicity. A change of venue wouldn't help. He'd have to get a jury with a makeup unlike most juries

Any educated refutals to that statement?

Only that I hope it not to be true and that our justice system is better than that.



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Jamie B

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 11:48:16 AM »
I've been saying that to my wife since this case got started, but she doesn't care (and lets me know that).

Even if he's 100% innocent, and it was 100% self defense, he's going to get some sort of punishment. They can't just let him get away with self defense after all of the publicity. A change of venue wouldn't help. He'd have to get a jury with a makeup unlike most juries

Any educated refutals to that statement?
I am married to one of those who does not care to understand, either.

I actually saw the televised bond hearing.
While not a lawyer, I would have phrased the apology differently, such as "I am sorry that the man lost his life, but I had no choice but to defend myself", or something along those lines.

He will surely do some time, as there is too much fear and retribution concern by everybody involved with the case.

So much for a fair and impartial jury.

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Tallpine

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 12:14:48 PM »
I've been saying that to my wife since this case got started, but she doesn't care (and lets me know that).

Even if he's 100% innocent, and it was 100% self defense, he's going to get some sort of punishment. They can't just let him get away with self defense after all of the publicity. A change of venue wouldn't help. He'd have to get a jury with a makeup unlike most juries

Any educated refutals to that statement?

The judge might dismiss the case.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 12:55:01 PM »
While not a lawyer, I would have phrased the apology differently, such as "I am sorry that the man lost his life, but I had no choice but to defend myself", or something along those lines.



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Chester32141

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 01:22:25 PM »

I suspect that Zimmerman discussed what he should say w/ his lawyer and it was decided that saying what he said would be the most straight forward way of accepting responsibility for killing Trayvon w/o muddying things up at the same time.   The Martin family lawyer claims it was the most self serving and disingenuous apology that he'd ever heard so we know he's not above distorting the truth.   I think he said that to try to keep the mother from going soft on the case as I suspect she knew her son well enough to know it could have been self defense and her testimony that it was Trayvon calling for help doesn't jive w/ the eyewitness evidence.  I thought the apology sounded genuine and it was brave and possibly foolish of him to offer one.  Now if we could only find out if Martin's fingerprints are on the gun.  After all it didn't cycle and Zimmerman said that Martin had grabbed for the gun while they grappled on the ground.  I must say I like the fact that many are saying that BHO injecting himself into this case may well hurt him big time in the fall.  It should  ... America elects a Black president and instead of striving for unity he does his best to divide the country racially ... Sounds like science fiction to anyone that hasn't been paying attention for the past 3 years ...
 [popcorn]

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 01:24:30 PM »
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/the-george-zimmerman-bail-hearing.html
Quote
Prosecutor: Zimmerman Allegedly Slapped His Ex-Girlfriend And ‘Asked Her How It Felt’

They left out "Defense Counsel Slaps Prosecutor, Asked Him How It Felt"

The judge was far less impressed that Think Progress by Zimmerman's inglorious past; fro the Guardian live blog:

The judge all but pooh-poohed the 2005 charges brought against Zimmerman for felony battery of an officer and resisting arrest. The charges were later reduced to a misdemeanor and Zimmerman never served prison time, although he was required to attend anger management classes.

This kind of thing is all too common, the judge said, suggested that the charges were somehow inflated and should not be taken as an indicator – that he, at least, would not be taking them as an indicator – of George Zimmerman's propensity for violence.

Well, the prosecutor impressed the stalwarts on the left, so he has that working for him. Too bad about the judge...

Love the snark in the last line.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 01:57:57 PM »
if i had killed someones child i would be able to sincerely say i was very sorry.  hurting folks is not all its cracked up to be in the movies and books
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 02:28:52 PM »

Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted by the media, so why should the prosecution have to prove its case against him?  ;/


This was my statement on another forum after which I was "stoned" verbally for being a racist. My contention is that either in state or federal court, Zimmerman is already guilty of something whether or not he actually is. I hope he has an outstanding lawyer.

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2012, 02:56:46 PM »
what Hank says.
Quote
Given the high-level intrusion of politics, I'd guess that nobody wants to take initiative - i.e., people will do exactly the specific tasks they're assigned, and no more, and they'll do them in exactly the manner in which they're specifically instructed; it's probably "CYA" time in the DA's office.

Zimmerman will go free imo, people will riot,more gun sales, more calls to "do something" about SYG which will go nowhere.

Everyone will blame everyone for Zimmerman going free, there will be two TV movies and multiple documentaries. Sharpton will make a fortune. Zimmerman might too.
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Tallpine

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2012, 03:17:42 PM »
Quote
people will riot

They usually burn their own neighborhoods.

A little good old-fashioned urban renewal.

I say we build a wall around those places and not let anyone in or out   >:D
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Jamie B

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2012, 04:36:47 PM »
They usually burn their own neighborhoods.

A little good old-fashioned urban renewal.

I say we build a wall around those places and not let anyone in or out   >:D
They do not burn....not until all of the plasma screens are gone from the looted stores.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2012, 05:46:07 PM »
if i had killed someones child i would be able to sincerely say i was very sorry.  hurting folks is not all its cracked up to be in the movies and books

True that.

I strongly suspect that even in the most clear cut textbook case of self defense, my first considered response once the smoke clears would be to vomit.

And I'd probably feel quite badly if it turned out to be a "child" (teenager) who'd been "just acting dumb" more than it was a hardened criminal "acting evil" etc. (Whether Zimmerman had also "acted dumb" to contribute to the overall situation, regardless...)
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MechAg94

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2012, 06:26:47 PM »
They usually burn their own neighborhoods.

A little good old-fashioned urban renewal.

I say we build a wall around those places and not let anyone in or out   >:D
So go back to the old style ghetto? 
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MechAg94

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2012, 06:27:41 PM »
I've been saying that to my wife since this case got started, but she doesn't care (and lets me know that).

Even if he's 100% innocent, and it was 100% self defense, he's going to get some sort of punishment. They can't just let him get away with self defense after all of the publicity. A change of venue wouldn't help. He'd have to get a jury with a makeup unlike most juries

Any educated refutals to that statement?
I worry about that mostly with the Feds.  Obama and others might take it upon themselves to go after him.
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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2012, 06:34:16 PM »
So go back to the old style ghetto? 

They call themselves "original gangster" how about they get an original ghetto?

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Re: Zimmerman Free on Bond
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2012, 07:22:07 PM »
Quote
Obama and others might take it upon themselves to go after him.

I read somewhere, but can't remember where, that Holder's DOJ is looking at this. Maybe they'll go for violating Martin's civil rights if Zimmerman isn't convicted of something.