Exec Privledge for Fast and Furious

[Hawkmoon]

Our esteemed Attorney General:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/holder-claims-emails-using-words-fast-and-furious-don-t-refer-operation-fast-and

This is just too over the top. Holder needs to be impeached. "The reference to 'Fast and Furious' did not refer to 'Fast and Furious" but to 'Wide Receiver' instead." Yeah, right. Gotta give the man credit -- he has cajones.

[longeyes]

Cojones--or he understands all too well the current state of the culture--viz., that mendacity usually goes not only unpunished but rewarded.

[De Selby]

It is certainly plausible that an email saying "fast and furious" captured by a text search wouldn't have anything to do with the operation.  It's a common phrase.

What isn't so sensible to me is why any email paid for by taxes should be off limits to congressional scrutiny.  Nor is it even remotely believable that the DOJ would be selling guns to crooks without high level approval - what mid-level government manager in his right mind would think he could do that on his own?

I'm surprised this hasn't received more traction.  It's probably because the conduct was so egregious it's been written off as a conspiracy theory, despite the justice department essentially admitting it sold guns to cops.

[Hawkmoon]

It is certainly plausible that an email saying "fast and furious" captured by a text search wouldn't have anything to do with the operation.  It's a common phrase.

I disagree it's a common phrase. It's so common that the only place I have heard it in 68+ years on this planet is in the name of this operation. Did you even read the article?

Among three of the emails (see Jason Weinstein Email Fast, Furious.pdf), the second, dated “October 17, 2010  11:07 PM,” was sent by Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein to James Trusty and it states:  “Do you think we should have Lanny participate in press when Fast and Furious and Laura’s Tucson case [Wide Receiver] are unsealed? It’s a tricky case, given the number of guns that have walked, but it is a significant set of prosecutions.”

In the third email, dated Oct. 18, 2010, James Trusty writes back to Weinstein: “I think so, but the timing will be tricky, too. Looks like we’ll be able to unseal the Tucson case sooner than the Fast and Furious (although this may be just the difference between Nov. and Dec).”

“It’s not clear how much we’re involved in the main F and F [Fast and Furious] case,” reads the email, “but we have Tucson [Wide Receiver] and now a new unrelated case with [redacted] targets. It’s not any big surprise that a bunch of US guns are being used in MX [Mexico], so I’m not sure how much grief we get for ‘guns walking.’ It may be more like ‘Finally, they’re going after people who sent guns down there.’”  (See Jason Weinstein Email Fast, Furious.pdf)

And then, incredibly, Holder came back with this:

In his testimony, Holder said that the emails only referred to Operation Wide Receiver.

Holder told the committee: “That refers to Wide Receiver, not to Fast and Furious. The e-mail that you [Rep. Chaffetz] just read [between Trusty and Weinstein] – now this is important – that email referred to Wide Receiver, it did not refer to Fast and Furious. That has to be noted for the record.”

[De Selby]

Hawkmoon, fast and furious is a saying that's certainly older than the popular series of movies going back ten years or so - I don't think it's reasonable to say that it is uncommon.

But anyway, I was agreeing with you that Holder's behaviour is inappropriate and that he probably is concealing something illegal.

[RoadKingLarry]

Hawkmoon, fast and furious is a saying that's certainly older than the popular series of movies going back ten years or so - I don't think it's reasonable to say that it is uncommon.

But anyway, I was agreeing with you that Holder's behaviour is inappropriate and that he probably is concealing something illegal.

Yes, "fast and furious" is a fairly common phrase. But, in circles that use code names when a word or phrase becomes a code name things change.

[griz]

He reminds me of a kid with icing and cake crumbs all over his face saying "I didn't eat the cupcakes".  Unfortunetly, whether or not congress tales him to the woodshed seems more a political matter than a question of right and wrong.

[grampster]

Eric Holder?  You mean the next Supreme Court justice if Obama is re-elected?

[MechAg94]

Personally, I think Holder is just comfortable in the fact that Democrats in Congress will attempt to cover for him no matter what he does.  I imagine he could pull out a gun and unload it on the crowd in the middle of Congress and some Dem Congressmen would still oppose any concrete action against him. 

Say what you want about others, but Democrats and those siding with them seem to do anything and everything they can to ignore or cover up anything that might be negative about this administration. 

[longeyes]

Holder is just a symptom of the final crack.  Liar and racist and totalitarian.   If the GOP were worth a fig they'd be raising hell on the floor of Congress.   That they aren't tells us how far down the road we really are.

[AJ Dual]

Holder is just a symptom of the final crack.  Liar and racist and totalitarian.   If the GOP were worth a fig they'd be raising hell on the floor of Congress.   That they aren't tells us how far down the road we really are.

Indeed, it's arguably "bigger" than Watergate and Iran-Contra, with a couple Monica's thrown in.

And I guess we're just supposed to feel lucky it got "exposed", and that it's ultimate purpose of undermining the 2nd Amendment and RKBA and try and gin up legislative traction for more bans, restrictions, or maybe the UN Small Arms Treaty, failed.

[dogmush]

Indeed, it's arguably "bigger" than Watergate and Iran-Contra, with a couple Monica's thrown in.

And I guess we're just supposed to feel lucky it got "exposed", and that it's ultimate purpose of undermining the 2nd Amendment and RKBA and try and gin up legislative traction for more bans, restrictions, or maybe the UN Small Arms Treaty, failed.

Did it fail though?

Outside of RKBA circles how many folks know the extent of F&F vs. the whole "US gunz kill Mexicans!!!!!" thing?  I'm not convinced that, as far as drumming up voter support, the scheme didn't work.

[Scout26]

Again, it's because the press/media is totally enraptured with this POTUS.  Had this been GWB or Reagan it would have reached Nixonian proportions by now and the Congressional hearing would make Watergate/Iran-Contra pale in comparison. 

The left's howls for the head of the POTUS would be broadcast/printed/blasted on the interwebz 24/7 to the point that he would not be able to govern.  (That's what they did to Nixon.)

But this, the silence is defining?

[zxcvbob]

But this, the silence is defining?

Beautiful freudian slip there.  (don't correct the spelling)  :)

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

It appears that all the Fast and Furious guns went to the Sinaloa Cartel. Thousands of them. All the cartels are wanting guns... so why is only one outfit getting them?

[AJ Dual]

It appears that all the Fast and Furious guns went to the Sinaloa Cartel. Thousands of them. All the cartels are wanting guns... so why is only one outfit getting them?

Makes one wonder if digging deeper, there were quid-pro-quo agreements that in exchange for letting the guns get "found" so they could be "traced" to provide adequate fodder for anti-RKBA agitprop, that law enforcement efforts, at least from a U.S. perspective would be focused on other competing cartels.

[AmbulanceDriver]

That would be spectacularly stupid.  That being said, I would not put it past the jokers over at DOJ to try something that monumentally stupid.

[AJ Dual]

That would be spectacularly stupid.  That being said, I would not put it past the jokers over at DOJ to try something that monumentally stupid.

The only way they'd consider it "stupid" is if they documented it somehow.

DHS has made it clear they already consider vets and RKBA-types a bigger threat than Al Queida or the Zetas or the Cartels.

[Marnoot]

Obama is invoking executive privilege on the documents congress demanded:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/20/politics/holder-contempt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[De Selby]

Let's hope someone wiki-leaks the material - I'm really interested to see what it is they hid.

[nigmalg]

What justification exists for "executive privilege" against congressional subpoenas? Let me guess.... national security?

[Kingcreek]

Obama only acts in his own self interest. Any executive priveledge claimed is just to preserve his own position.
Documents? what are they besides old paper and bytes anyway? not like its a birth certificate or anything.

Eric the withHolder is starting to make Janet Reno look like a really good AG.

[Unisaw]

IANAL, but Fox is reporting that Executive Privilege attaches only if the President was directly involved.  Best case, the DOJ doesn't understand Executive Privilege.  Worst case, Holder perjured himself before Congress and the President lied through his teeth to the American public.  I vote for the latter.

[Ned Hamford]

Intervening to save Holder from the Contempt hearing, Obama has declared Fast & Furious a sensitive matter protected by executive privilege. 

The contempt hearing is scheduled for... right now.  And it is reportedly still on. 

I am still of the belief that this is larger than Iran-Contra and should be front page on ever newspaper with continuous coverage from ALL the major networks. 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

How can the idiot n chief invoke executive privilege for documents he has stated have no white house involvement?  Yes, this is bigger than Iran-Contra. Makes Nixon look like a baby. We have a Tyrant wannabe running this county, with an AG that is more racist than any KKK grand Poobah