Author Topic: Hug Causes Cop's Gun to Fire (Read 9148 times)

Ben · « **on:** July 09, 2012, 10:02:38 AM »

Very sad, and condolences to the victim's family. Again, one of those "limited info" stories that Fox is getting so good at, but how does a hug cause a holstered sidearm to fire?

I have to wonder if it was a striker fire stuck in a belt instead of being holstered, or if the victim or cop was somehow touching the gun when it fired. If holstered, it must have been at a pretty forward cant to strike the victim when it fired, versus striking the cop's leg.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/08/detroit-woman-killed-when-hug-triggers-officer-gun-police-say/

Ron · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:11:45 AM »

Shoulder holster and she inadvertently got a finger on the bang switch while hugging him from behind?

Ben · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:29:41 AM »

Quote from: Ron on July 09, 2012, 10:11:45 AM

Shoulder holster and she inadvertently got a finger on the bang switch while hugging him from behind?

Ah yes, a good possibility. Even though I have a shoulder holster and I think they're very comfortable, I don't think of them as a first choice for defensive carry. I guess a lot of cops still use them though?

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:36:05 AM »

Half-past midnight at an "outdoor social gathering"? It could have been holstered. Or he could have been brandishing, just to show off.

AmbulanceDriver · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2012, 12:12:23 PM »

One of the many reasons I *don't* like horizontal shoulder holsters. Even if it wasn't the instance on this case, I don't like the fact that you're muzzle sweeping everyone behind you.

geronimotwo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:45:17 PM »

the main reason i use a holster is that the trigger is inaccessable. do they make holsters without that feature?

vaskidmark · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:01:18 PM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on July 09, 2012, 01:45:17 PM

the main reason i use a holster is that the trigger is inaccessable. do they make holsters without that feature?

There are some. Also some that just barely cover the reigger but not the entire trigger guard.

As for how it happened:

Quote

According to Stephens, the woman "embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge." The bullet punctured Miller's lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital.

Pretty much had to be a horizontal shoulder holster for that to happen. But still, I'm skeptical - it seems to me it would require hooking the thumb into the trigger guard and if you are hugging someone from behind your hands - along with their associated thumbs - are going to be pretty much on the chest rather than the ribcage. And if she was standing behind him, hugging on him, the bullet would need to take a sharp left turn before it got to Albuquerque in order to hit her heart. (ETA - No, it couuld happen without the sharp turn if the holster were twisted along the outside of the ribcage to point just right.)

I'm just thinking there better be one honking big powder burn on both the holster and the body. I'm also thinking there's a very good chance there isn't one.

stay safe.

makattak · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:32:04 PM »

You are all correct in your assessments for the young woman to have been shot as described. However, the lawyer for the police union says:

Quote

John Goldpaugh, a lawyer for the Detroit Police Officers Association, said...the veteran beat patrolman was hosting a party at his home and was dancing with his wife when Miller came up behind him and tugged at his waist.

"And the gun went off," Goldpaugh said. "It's a fluke accidental shooting."

The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer's waistband and was covered by his shirt, Goldpaugh said.

Goldpaugh said the physical evidence from the incident corroborated the officer's account of the shooting. The officer did not know the woman, who attended the party with other guests, Goldpaugh said.

If the reporting is correct (quite iffy, but this should have been supplied by the ME) and she died of a chest wound, the officer's account most definitely is not corroborated by the physical evidence.

geronimotwo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:37:22 PM »

wow, dancing with your wife a woman you don't know comes up and tugs on your waist (or hugs you depending on the version) your gun in your iwb holster is pointed at her heart? what position would she need to be in?

Scout26 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:38:35 PM »

I'm not buying it....

SADShooter · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:42:30 PM »

Paul Harvey/We need "the rest of the story."/Paul Harvey

41magsnub · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:43:26 PM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on July 09, 2012, 03:37:22 PM

wow, dancing with your wife a woman you don't know comes up and tugs on your waist (or hugs you depending on the version) your gun in your iwb holster is pointed at her heart? what position would she need to be in?

Pocket carry with her on her knees in front of you?

HankB · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:57:11 PM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on July 09, 2012, 03:37:22 PM

wow, dancing with your wife a woman you don't know comes up and tugs on your waist (or hugs you depending on the version) your gun in your iwb holster is pointed at her heart? what position would she need to be in?

The only position I'm picturing is probably something out of the Kama Sutra or those Kathmandu temple carvings . . .

Tallpine · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2012, 04:00:26 PM »

Quote from: makattak on July 09, 2012, 02:32:04 PM

If the reporting is correct (quite iffy, but this should have been supplied by the ME) and she died of a chest wound, the officer's account most definitely is not corroborated by the physical evidence.

Only if the officer's name was Oswald

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:44:56 PM »

My BS meter pegged out when I first read this story. Things just don't add up to 2+2=4.

RevDisk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:50:23 PM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on July 09, 2012, 03:37:22 PM

wow, dancing with your wife a woman you don't know comes up and tugs on your waist (or hugs you depending on the version) your gun in your iwb holster is pointed at her heart? what position would she need to be in?

...

Yea... I'm going to wait for further news. It does not pass the smell test.

MillCreek · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2012, 06:59:00 PM »

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/09/12644760-detroit-police-chief-fatal-shooting-after-hug-was-accident?lite

From the article:

Godbee said Miller was dancing with Parrish and had touched his waist from behind when his holstered handgun fired, striking Miller in the chest. The bullet pierced Miller’s lung and struck her heart, authorities said. Miller died later at a Detroit hospital.

Godbee said Parrish's weapon was in a waist holster made of a soft material and worn on the officer’s right side, which would have allowed the trigger to be activated. He said there was no indication that Parrish had touched the weapon when it went off.

According to the Detroit News, the gun, described as a Smith & Wesson M&P 40-caliber semi-automatic, did not have an external safety, but did have an internal safety in the trigger.

Here's what certified firearms instructor Rick Ector told The Associated Press:
"The Smith & Wesson M&P primarily was designed for police and military use. It does not have a safety switch, but the trigger has to be pulled back completely for the gun to fire. If properly holstered, the gun cannot be fired accidentally."

David Balash, a former Michigan State Police firearms examiner, told the AP:
"What's going to be very important here is the angle of the entry of the wound to the victim (and) if there is in fact any gunpowder residue. I'm having a great deal of difficulty understanding how a weapon that's pointed at the ground can be turned literally 110 degrees minimum to be in an upward position to strike someone."

I wonder if it was a OWB holster with a rotating clip such that the angle of the holster can be adjusted. I have a few of those, and I can see how they can be rotated. I wouldn't think it would happen by accident, though.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2012, 07:36:39 PM »

Looks like somebody's lying through their teeth.

freakazoid · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2012, 08:52:58 PM »

Maybe he was bent over?

birdman · « **Reply #19 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:13:57 PM »

Quote from: freakazoid on July 09, 2012, 08:52:58 PM

Maybe he was bent over?

I'm thinking she was crouched behind him
Gun on back of hip
She reaches around/in pants
Gun discharges, diagonally in both horizontal and vertical directions, hitting her square in the chest.

seeker_two · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2012, 11:55:23 PM »

Maybe his wife "accidentally brushed" the trigger when she saw the girlfriend.....

Strings · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2012, 10:15:49 AM »

Spoon is thinking there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll

Seriously, I can't figure out how the angles would work on this one

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2012, 11:12:03 AM »

My immediate thought was a horizontal shoulder holster, but multiple articles have stated it was a neoprene IWB holster.

My next thought is "suicide." There was such an incident just a few days ago, except that the officer was in uniform, on duty, and had been granted official permission to give the young woman a ride to the hospital. While he was driving, she drew his pistol and shot herself.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2012, 11:31:47 AM »

Figured it out, folks. He's a racist and she was wearing a hoody.

birdman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2012, 12:01:34 PM »

Quote from: Strings on July 10, 2012, 10:15:49 AM

Spoon is thinking there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll

Seriously, I can't figure out how the angles would work on this one

I thought my scenario accounted for the angles quite well.

News:

Author Topic: Hug Causes Cop's Gun to Fire (Read 9148 times)