Author Topic: George Zimmerman Trial  (Read 219326 times)

sumpnz

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #225 on: July 04, 2013, 11:56:02 AM »
My prediction is that Zimmerman gets convicted at trial and has the conviction overturned on eventual appeal. If he lives long enough to see that play out.

This outcome still would not surprize me in the least.  Based on what we've seen he should be acquitted.  But OJ and Casey Anthony should have convicted. 

roo_ster

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #226 on: July 04, 2013, 01:44:44 PM »


Tom Wolfe explains the Zimmerman case
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/07/tom-wolfe-explains-zimmerman-case.html

Quote
One of my relatively few specific successes in the field of Awareness Raising over the last decade has been how much more cognizant a small fraction of the thinking public has become that Tom Wolfe's 1987 bestseller The Bonfire of the Vanities foreshadows many of the racial brouhahas that have consumed the press in the 26 years since. Judge Richard A. Posner's mid-1990s reassessment of Bonfire praised Wolfe's "prophetic insight (the sort of thing we attribute to Kafka)." Wolfe's phrase "Great White Defendant" is now up to 95,600 pages on Google.

With the current Bonfire-style trial of George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin shooting turning into an unsurprising train wreck, it's worth giving you excerpts of a key section from Bonfire (pp. 105-108) that provides the template for understanding much of what you see on the nightly news over the decades:

The language is NSFW...

If you have not read anything by Tom Wolfe, you are doing yourself a disservice.  I first read him in his book A Man in Full.  I was living in/near Atlanta at the time and he captured it to a T.  His style of writing is very engaging.  I liken him to a better-read, more hygenic, and sober  Hunter S. Thompson.

I have enjoyed his journalism, fiction novels, and nonfiction books.




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roo_ster

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Scout26

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #227 on: July 04, 2013, 02:04:03 PM »
*yawn*  Wake me up when the verdict is read and the riots start.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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zxcvbob

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #228 on: July 04, 2013, 02:19:14 PM »
Ahh, but has Z's defense proved him 100% innocent? It appears the only way he will walk is if he can overcome the presumption of guilt.

Only one person has ever been 100% innocent -- and he got the death penalty.
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RevDisk

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #229 on: July 04, 2013, 03:50:17 PM »

The most important part of the Zimmerman trial is, be situationally aware. Being legally in the right is only half of self defense. The other half is making sure your trial is as cheap and short as possible. Which means going well beyond the legal necessities.
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Stand_watie

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #230 on: July 04, 2013, 03:55:43 PM »

Tom Wolfe explains the Zimmerman case
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/07/tom-wolfe-explains-zimmerman-case.html

If you have not read anything by Tom Wolfe, you are doing yourself a disservice.  I first read him in his book A Man in Full.  I was living in/near Atlanta at the time and he captured it to a T.  His style of writing is very engaging.  I liken him to a better-read, more hygenic, and sober  Hunter S. Thompson.

I have enjoyed his journalism, fiction novels, and nonfiction books.

He's as good as Larry McMurtry, which is saying a lot. Various pages of my copy of that book have food/drink laughter ejecta stains.





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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #231 on: July 04, 2013, 05:54:23 PM »
the martin camp is unhappy which is good  we still have the grieving mothers turn on the stand possibly the brother.  both give me hope that martins "character" can be brought into play.  if they pitch him as a good boy the defense can rebut
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #232 on: July 04, 2013, 09:54:02 PM »
the martin camp is unhappy which is good  we still have the grieving mothers turn on the stand possibly the brother.  both give me hope that martins "character" can be brought into play.  if they pitch him as a good boy the defense can rebut

The prosecution wouldn't be so stupid.  OK, I can see that happening.

Before the prosecution rests its case, it may manage to posthumously convict TM of a violent assault and hate crime against GZ.  Pinning the NSA leaks on TM may be a bit of a stretch, given he was dead at the time, but the state's team seems to have a real talent.  Of some sort.
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roo_ster

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T.O.M.

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #233 on: July 05, 2013, 10:03:55 AM »
If Martin's mother testifies, and sobs her way through a story of her poor boy, her good boy, she'll never get him back, etc., the smartest thing that the defense could do is NOT cross her at all.  Why?  Beat up the grieving mother and you just look like an a$$ to the jury.  I've seen many a case where a jury will take it out on the defendant when they think the defense attorney is an a$$.  They don't need to beat her up to prevail.  Let her go, rely on the evidence that is already out 9which we've discussed above), and put on a solid self-defense argument.
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French G.

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #234 on: July 05, 2013, 01:00:03 PM »
So any bets on him getting off but losing the sure to come civil trial?
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

dogmush

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #235 on: July 05, 2013, 01:08:35 PM »
So any bets on him getting off but losing the sure to come civil trial?

He gets off and there will be no civil trial. FL gives civil immunity to self defense shoots.

makattak

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #236 on: July 05, 2013, 02:08:50 PM »
He gets off and there will be no civil trial. FL gives civil immunity to self defense shoots.

It is my understanding that if you are CHARGED in Florida, even if found to have acted in self-defense, you can then be sued in civil court.

Which was the entire purpose here. That was why the screaming about "We just want a trial!" The "Justice for Trayvon" parents who trademarked his name are interested in the $$$$$$ sort of "justice". That was the entire purpose of stoking racial animus in this case. Their bloodsucking, bottomfeeding, slime-oozing, scum-sucking, self-serving lawyer, of course, included.
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dogmush

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #237 on: July 05, 2013, 02:15:06 PM »
Don't think so. The law says "uses force". Of course it also says he is immune to criminal prosecution. But my understanding is that if the use of force is found to be justifiable (I.e. not criminal) then the civil immunity kicks in. IANAL and all that.

Here's the law:
http://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/fl-776-032%E2%80%83immunity-from-criminal-prosecution-and-civil-action-for-justifiable-use-of-force/

makattak

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #238 on: July 05, 2013, 02:52:40 PM »
Don't think so. The law says "uses force". Of course it also says he is immune to criminal prosecution. But my understanding is that if the use of force is found to be justifiable (I.e. not criminal) then the civil immunity kicks in. IANAL and all that.

Here's the law:
http://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/fl-776-032%E2%80%83immunity-from-criminal-prosecution-and-civil-action-for-justifiable-use-of-force/

Unfortunately, that law is unclear as to what happens should "the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it having determined that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful."

It's fairly clear that the agency DIDN'T find that probable cause but arrested him anyway. The question is, then, what happens now that the state have ostensibly found "probable cause."
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

T.O.M.

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #239 on: July 05, 2013, 03:37:08 PM »
Now that is an interesting statute.  The way I read it, if a person is "justified" in using force, he cannot be prosecuted criminally or civilly for that use of force.  If he is acquitted on the criminal side, you'll have a jury verdict saying that the use of force was justified.  The civil attorney can argue that this statute applies, as the criminal jury found the use of force to be justified, regardless of the arrest.  Civil lawyer will argue arrest = unjustified, and Zimmerman's lawyer will argue res judicata.


Apparently the State has rested, and the defense is arguing for dismissal/acquittal for failure to make a prima facie case.  Standard procedure in all criminal cases.  I imaging the judge will deny the motion, since this is a self-defense case.  We'll see how it pans out...
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roo_ster

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #240 on: July 05, 2013, 03:51:50 PM »
Apparently the State has rested, and the defense is arguing for dismissal/acquittal for failure to make a prima facie case.  Standard procedure in all criminal cases.  I imaging the judge will deny the motion, since this is a self-defense case.  We'll see how it pans out...

Interesting. 
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roo_ster

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Matthew Carberry

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #241 on: July 05, 2013, 05:14:18 PM »
Noted on Legal Insurrection that today began with a sad mother (who didn't actually raise Trayvon most of his recent life, the step-mom did) claiming the screaming voice was her son and is ending with another sad mother (1/4 black / 3/4 Hispanic and dark), who raised her son his whole life, saying the screams were -her- son.

Wonder if NBC will lighten her photos?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #242 on: July 05, 2013, 05:57:00 PM »
I liked the csm's testimony

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lee n. field

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #243 on: July 05, 2013, 06:41:10 PM »
Noted on Legal Insurrection that today began with a sad mother (who didn't actually raise Trayvon most of his recent life, the step-mom did) claiming the screaming voice was her son and is ending with another sad mother (1/4 black / 3/4 Hispanic and dark), who raised her son his whole life, saying the screams were -her- son.

Really and truely?  Circus.

Quote
Wonder if NBC will lighten her photos?

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Gowen

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #244 on: July 07, 2013, 04:25:10 PM »
I just got an email from my father-in-law and it has Trayvon's photos in it.  It could be a fake, so many of them are but the Trayvon the 12yo photo vs. Trayvon the 17yo is an amazing transformation.  Trayvon the 12yo I'd invite to dinner or to church, Trayvon the 17yo I wouldn't want to be on the same city block with.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #245 on: July 07, 2013, 09:17:48 PM »
I just got an email from my father-in-law and it has Trayvon's photos in it.  It could be a fake, so many of them are but the Trayvon the 12yo photo vs. Trayvon the 17yo is an amazing transformation.  Trayvon the 12yo I'd invite to dinner or to church, Trayvon the 17yo I wouldn't want to be on the same city block with.

You're profiling  ;)  :P
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Gowen

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #246 on: July 07, 2013, 10:52:09 PM »
You're profiling  ;)  :P

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AJ Dual

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #249 on: July 08, 2013, 12:29:57 AM »
Front page of Drudge...

MSM is jumping ship.



Now it's a matter of seeing if the MSM is going to organically but "unintentionally" through emergent group-think beat the riot drums to at least get some new "it bleeds it leads" drama/disaster/angst to pump ratings.

I promise not to duck.