Author Topic: George Zimmerman Trial  (Read 219402 times)

geronimotwo

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #275 on: July 10, 2013, 06:55:43 PM »
gives his attorney something to work for... ;)
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #276 on: July 10, 2013, 07:01:38 PM »
Agreed.  IIRC, part of the reasoning for taking the assets before trial was to prevent the suspect from using those assets to fund their defense.

It would seem that puts the defendant in a bad spot:  state must generally prove guilt.  If you're truly innocent, seizure prevents putting up an adequate defense with legitimately acquired assets.....
Great way for the state to transfer wealth....
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cordex

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #277 on: July 10, 2013, 07:14:21 PM »
It would seem that puts the defendant in a bad spot:  state must generally prove guilt.  If you're truly innocent, seizure prevents putting up an adequate defense with legitimately acquired assets.....
Great way for the state to transfer wealth....
In some states the prosecutor will hire unelected, independent lawyers to prosecute asset forfeiture cases for a cut of the seizure.

RevDisk

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #278 on: July 11, 2013, 08:45:46 AM »
Agreed.  IIRC, part of the reasoning for taking the assets before trial was to prevent the suspect from using those assets to fund their defense.

Yea, because we can't have a level playing field, right?

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HankB

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #279 on: July 11, 2013, 08:48:07 AM »
Saw video clips of THE JUDGE questioning - badgering, actually - George Zimmerman; she appeared to be prompting him to say he wanted to testify. When his lawyer objected to the judge's questioning, she OVER RULED the lawyer!!

Since when does a judge - or anyone, for that matter - get to question a defendant in a criminal prosecution who's not on the stand and has counsel present to object to the questioning?

Would some of our legal-eagles PLEASE weigh in on this? IANAL, and it seems downright bizzare to me . . .
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #280 on: July 11, 2013, 09:47:08 AM »
I just watched a video of that exchange.
It gave me a WTF moment.
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brimic

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #281 on: July 11, 2013, 09:52:40 AM »
Quote
Since when does a judge - or anyone, for that matter - get to question a defendant in a criminal prosecution who's not on the stand and has counsel present to object to the questioning?

Its ok since a federal judge appointment is probably on the line depending if she can get a conviction or not.
Remember, this isn't the America of 20 or even 10 years ago, its the obama America.
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Tallpine

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #282 on: July 11, 2013, 10:16:01 AM »
Saw video clips of THE JUDGE questioning - badgering, actually - George Zimmerman; she appeared to be prompting him to say he wanted to testify. When his lawyer objected to the judge's questioning, she OVER RULED the lawyer!!

Since when does a judge - or anyone, for that matter - get to question a defendant in a criminal prosecution who's not on the stand and has counsel present to object to the questioning?

Would some of our legal-eagles PLEASE weigh in on this? IANAL, and it seems downright bizzare to me . . .

Might be useful on appeal  ;)
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lee n. field

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #283 on: July 11, 2013, 11:09:37 AM »
Its ok since a federal judge appointment is probably on the line depending if she can get a conviction or not.
Remember, this isn't the America of 20 or even 10 years ago, its the obama America.

I dunno.  Maybe she's aiming at being the next Judge Judy on TeeVee.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #284 on: July 11, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »
I see the judge has now told the jurors they can consider manslaughter charges. Not to be putting on the tinfoil, but it sure seems like a surefire way to get Zimmerman on something, and give the "Zimmerman must be found guilty" crowd a bone. Though I think if the jury were to find him not guilty on all counts, the judge having given the jury a ton of leeway to get a guilt verdict, will have created an even more volatile situation with the race baiters if Zimmerman is exonerated.
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brimic

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #285 on: July 11, 2013, 11:21:47 AM »
Quote
I dunno.  Maybe she's aiming at being the next Judge Judy on TeeVee.
Nope. Her strings are firmly in the hands of holder and obama.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #286 on: July 11, 2013, 11:23:48 AM »
I can't help but think, given the number of media cynics on the jury, that at least one of them (or more) is reading all the shenanigans going on in this circus and has already made up her mind to acquit just due to procedural malpractice, let alone the facts of the case.
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HankB

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #287 on: July 11, 2013, 11:30:20 AM »
I can't help but think, given the number of media cynics on the jury, that at least one of them (or more) is reading all the shenanigans going on in this circus and has already made up her mind to acquit just due to procedural malpractice, let alone the facts of the case.
I thought the jury was sequestered for this trial, without official access to newspapers, internet, radio, or TV?
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Tallpine

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #288 on: July 11, 2013, 11:31:07 AM »
I see the judge has now told the jurors they can consider manslaughter charges. Not to be putting on the tinfoil, but it sure seems like a surefire way to get Zimmerman on something, and give the "Zimmerman must be found guilty" crowd a bone. Though I think if the jury were to find him not guilty on all counts, the judge having given the jury a ton of leeway to get a guilt verdict, will have created an even more volatile situation with the race baiters if Zimmerman is exonerated.

Isn't that contrary to FL law  ???  

Obviously the judge knows that the trial has been going in favor of Z.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #289 on: July 11, 2013, 11:32:16 AM »
I thought the jury was sequestered for this trial, without official access to newspapers, internet, radio, or TV?

I'm sure they are, but there was a juror profile article a few pages back in this thread, highlighting the prosecution/defense interview process for the jurors.  A good number of them expressed considerable cynicism for the media during the interview process.

I take this as a sign they understand populist manipulation and pandering techniques, including those the prosecution and judge are attempting to employ in the courtroom.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #290 on: July 11, 2013, 11:41:15 AM »
Watching the video of that exchange, I can't help but think it was a deliberate attempt to badger the defense and make them look like they "lost" something in regards to procedural propriety.  The judge was helping the prosecution there, purely from a cosmetic and superficial presentability angle to the jury.

The only thing to be seen if if the jury finds that exchange to be distasteful from the perspective of the justice system's own propriety, or Zimmerman's defense.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #291 on: July 11, 2013, 12:01:19 PM »
Isn't that contrary to FL law  ??? 

Obviously the judge knows that the trial has been going in favor of Z.

They haven't charged him with child abuse. Not yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/justice/zimmerman-trial/index.html
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TommyGunn

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #292 on: July 11, 2013, 12:18:54 PM »
I see the judge has now told the jurors they can consider manslaughter charges. Not to be putting on the tinfoil, but it sure seems like a surefire way to get Zimmerman on something, and give the "Zimmerman must be found guilty" crowd a bone. Though I think if the jury were to find him not guilty on all counts, the judge having given the jury a ton of leeway to get a guilt verdict, will have created an even more volatile situation with the race baiters if Zimmerman is exonerated.

 >:D :facepalm: If this wasn't a showtrial before it certainly is now! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
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Jocassee

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #293 on: July 11, 2013, 01:06:03 PM »
Apparently they are charging him with child abuse? After the trial?

What the effing effity eff??

EDIT: The State has brought it to the judge, it hasn't happened yet. She said she'll rule on it "later"

my previous remarks stand.
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RevDisk

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #294 on: July 11, 2013, 01:56:36 PM »

I'm waiting for them to start chanting "Kirk!" repeatedly while General Chang asks Zimmerman if he had been indulging in too much Romulan Ale.

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TechMan

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #295 on: July 11, 2013, 02:18:25 PM »
Apparently they are charging him with child abuse? After the trial?

What the effing effity eff??

EDIT: The State has brought it to the judge, it hasn't happened yet. She said she'll rule on it "later"

my previous remarks stand.

She ruled:  Denied prosecution's bid for felony murder based on child abuse.

 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #296 on: July 11, 2013, 02:19:50 PM »
She ruled:  Denied prosecution's bid for felony murder based on child abuse.


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lupinus

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #297 on: July 11, 2013, 02:59:36 PM »
First decent call she's made this whole trial. I'm honestly surprised she didn't allow it.
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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #298 on: July 11, 2013, 03:03:42 PM »
Sorry.  Been busy doing my judicial job.

One the first issue, of the judge questioning Zimmerman about testifying...First the jury was not present.  This was done outside the presence of the jury, as many procedural issues are.  The reason is that it allows for a discussion, on the record, without concern that anything said can wrongfully influence the jury.  So, don't worry about the judge putting on a show here for the jury.  Second, some jurisdictions actually require questioning along these lines.  Here in Ohio, before a defendant can testify, the judge is required to question the defendant to make sure the defendant understands his right to remain silent, and that choosing to testify means a complete waiver of that right. I've read some appeals which have ruled that a judge should have inquired, as she did here, to make sure that the defendant understands not only his right to remain silent, but also his right to testify.  Now, West was just dumb here.  He objected the first time.  Overruled. Okay, he made his record for appeal on the issue, and the judge overruled him.  Second objection, the judge got the point, but again overruled.  Third objection in less than two minutes, and you're just pissing off the judge.  Not a good move for your client.  And, like in A Few Good Men, did he think that strenuously objecting a third time was going to change the judge's mind when it didn't work the first two times 30 seconds ago?  Her questions were not out of line.  She's asking about time issues, scheduling issues.  She's not asking him if he's guilty or anything.  Bad move by West.

On the second issue.  Again, I don't know Florida law, and I'm too busy right now to research it all, but manslaughter may be a "lesser included offense" to the Murder charge.  How it works is the higher offense includes all of the same elements as the lower offense, a jury can choose the lower offense in place of the higher offense.  the reason I think this is the case here is that the judge tossed the idea of the other manslaughter charge, because it had the additional element of "child abuse," which was never alleged before the prosecutor threw it out today.  Again, nothing remarkable about including it...except that it was the prosecution that asked.  In 18 years, I don't think I've ever seen a prosecutor at the close of all evidence suddenly ask for instructions on a lesser included.  that would mean they know they missed swinging for the fence, so they're hoping for anything.
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: George Zimmerman Trial
« Reply #299 on: July 11, 2013, 03:59:03 PM »
I'm waiting for them to start chanting "Kirk!" repeatedly while General Chang asks Zimmerman if he had been indulging in too much Romulan Ale.


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