Author Topic: illegal alien still wants to get a law license  (Read 8557 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 10:11:31 PM »
Well, the courts definitely, in that case, say he has to be convicted.  Good for them.  If a bank robber hasn't been convicted of a bank robbery, is he a felon?  

If an American helps Al Qaeda but hasn't been convicted of treason is he a traitor?

You win the legal argument but we all know he's a felon.    

Quote
fel•on1 (ˈfɛl ən)

n.
1. a person who has committed a felony

The guy is a serial criminal living off my tax dollars.  I'll concede that hanging is not necessary in this case - though I wouldn't object to it.  He definitely doesn't deserve to stay in the US any longer, to live off of the tax dollars of honest Americans, or to be licensed as an attorney at law.
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dogmush

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 11:43:45 PM »
The guy is a serial criminal living off my tax dollars.  I'll concede that hanging is not necessary in this case - though I wouldn't object to it.  He definitely doesn't deserve to stay in the US any longer, to live off of the tax dollars of honest Americans, or to be licensed as an attorney at law.

[citation needed]

Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2013, 12:13:13 AM »
What citation.  He's admitted he's an illegal alien.  How is he paying taxes legally?  If he's not paying taxes then every time he walks on a sidewalk, he's living off my taxes.
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dogmush

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2013, 02:12:45 AM »
What citation.  He's admitted he's an illegal alien.  How is he paying taxes legally?  If he's not paying taxes then every time he walks on a sidewalk, he's living off my taxes.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18077009/ns/business-personal_finance/t/illegal-immigrants-filing-taxes-more-ever/#.Ujagm8Ywero

The IRS issues Taxpayer ID numbers to Illegals, and collects taxes.  Has for years.  In addition CA has a sales tax, property taxes, fuel taxes and other sundry taxes that either are added to daily bills, or are tracked and paid without tying to a SSN.

He might be a tax cheat, but you're the one who made an accusation so [citation needed].


*This is not to say he should get a law license, but rather I dislike unsupported hyperbole. Although this case would seem to highlight problems with our immigration policy.


Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 10:14:24 PM »
Wow.  I admit I didn't know that one.  Hadn't heard it in years of calling all illegal aliens tax cheats.  I know plenty of employers and illegal aliens who are, in fact, tax cheats but I can no longer say they all are.

Live and learn.
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dogmush

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2013, 01:27:06 AM »
Yeah, credit goes to CSD on that one.  He threw up some links in a similar argument several years ago and I learned about the taxpayer ID's.


It makes a twisted kind of sense from the IRS' point of view; They aren't getting deported, you might as well get the taxes.

MillCreek

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 09:32:01 AM »
Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security:  http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

roo_ster

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2013, 11:38:41 AM »
Yeah, credit goes to CSD on that one.  He threw up some links in a similar argument several years ago and I learned about the taxpayer ID's.

It makes a twisted kind of sense from the IRS' point of view; They aren't getting deported, you might as well get the taxes.

Yeah, but not all susnshine & roses, as the agencies involved have become corrupt by not prosecuting very obvious violations of tax law, immigration law, and identity theft (when TIN & SSN mismatch) for a little bit of money.  Emphasis on little (see below).  Retail individual corruption: "The man is a swine!"  Wholesale institutional corruption: "Where is that humanitarian of the year award?"

Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security:  http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html

Yeah, not so much.  Oh, I have no doubt such payments exist, but they are a pittance.  And if they are amnestied, Social Security will be even worse off.

The fact is, the wealth/income/GDP bump that a country might get from illegal immigration into the USA is minuscule. They just plain are not productive enough and have too few skills.  Subtract their contribution to GDP and you would be hard-pressed to notice the difference relative to any rounding errors. ("Hey, these GDP numbers are different.  Did you leave out the contribution of illegal aliens?"  "Nope, I just used the correct number of significant digits this time.")  Oh, those whose business plan relies on illegal immigrant helot labor would howl, but the impact at the grocery store would be a couple cents/head of lettuce, easily swamped by a bump in fuel prices.

And the first time the illegal gets injured and goes to the county hospital, their first anchor baby is born, the first semester their anchor baby goes to school, the first time they get a DWI and sit it out in jail, and suchlike, all those tax dollars are burned & more.

In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $72.8 billion for 7.7 million workers who could not be matched to legal Social Security numbers.

In 2009, US GDP was ~$14trillion or ~$14000billion(1).  Reported wages of presumable illegals in 2009  was 0.0052 of the US GDP.  That is 0.52% of GDP.  A half of a percent.

In 2009, the budget outlays for just Social Security was $949.4B(2).  12.4% of $72.8B is $9B, or 0.95% of the SS budget for 2009. 

Assuming that half of illegals pay SStax, we would need another 140million illegals in the USA in 2009 to cover 2009's SS obligations. 

That math only gets worse from there.  IOW, don;t expect to keep SS solvent with illegal alien tax receipts.






(1) Why the "~"?  Because depending on the source, 2009 GDP swings from a smidge below $14B to $14.5B.  I chose $14B to make the illegal alien contribution as large as possible. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2010USb_14s2li011lcn__US_Gross_Domestic_Product_GDP_History

(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2013, 06:48:21 PM »
Whether some pay some taxes or not, many do not pay.  Many employers illegally hire them - and it is still illegal to do so.  I am usually rebutted at this point by saying that the employer can't do a background check and if the illegal alien provides the documents required by an I-9 then how can you blame them.  But many employers are paying cash under the table - actually for citizen employees as well as illegal aliens. Those employers know what they're doing.

Personally, I don't care if some or most of what I buy gets more expensive in order to protect our borders and American labor. 
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MillCreek

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2013, 08:51:36 AM »
http://www.npr.org/2013/10/08/230320902/calif-law-allows-undocumented-immigrants-to-practice-law?ft=1&f=1001

Mr. Garcia should be admitted to the California Bar soon.  A new California state law was passed to allow for this.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MechAg94

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2013, 09:27:03 AM »
Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security:  http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
That would be nice except that the IRS is sending Tax refunds to illegals and doens't bother to question the dozen or more dependents they claim.  
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/18/the-irs-immigration-fraud-scan
#3 on the scandal list.

I really doubt illegals are a net positive to taxes.  They couldn't really claim that unless they know who they are in the first place.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2013, 01:13:05 PM »
I understand that California has also given illegal aliens the right to vote in local elections.
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Levant

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Re: illegal alien still wants to get a law license
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2013, 01:18:36 PM »
And I don't care if illegal aliens are supporting me on Social Security.  The Social Security trust fund is owed so much money from the federal government that I don't need to worry - except they'll never pay it back.  When they say SS is in the red, they are saying that spend is greater than current-year receipts, not that spend is greater than what has been received.

I'm ok with honest hard times for me and for the nation.  We'll all survive it.  I'm not ok with selling out my ethical or moral beliefs so that I can get a few more of my own dollars back from the federal government.
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