Minnesota: Gun registration and background check bills moving

[DustinD]

Sorry for not being as on the ball as I should be, there was a big hearing on Thursday in the senate committee. A bill that would strip people merely accused of domestic violence of their RKBA and confiscate their guns. It has numerous intentional flaws that the senate committee chair (latz) promised to fix later. The bill was put forth by MAIG. It was voted on in committee, passed, and moved to the senate floor.

There is another committee meeting on Tuesday March 25th at 10:00am in Room 10 of the State Office Building, next to the capitol. The House version of Michael Bloomberg’s unconstitutional gun grab bill, HF3238, will be heard in Rep. Paymar’s Public Safety committee. More information can be found at Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance.

There also seems to be issues of an Iowa based group called Minnesota Gun Rights. They stole half of our side's debate time and basically wasted it by not making any points. They are only in it for the money, and may be a false flag organisation.

[vaskidmark]

Good luck to all y'all up there.

The Lautenberg Amendment is bad enough, but to try and strip away a civil right based on mere accusation is beyond intolerable.  And yet it takes eternal vigilance to prevent that sort of crap from becoming law.

stay safe.

[HankB]

. . . The Lautenberg Amendment is bad enough, but to try and strip away a civil right based on mere accusation is beyond intolerable.   . . .

One wonders . . . is there an exception written into the law if said accusations are made against POLICE? I can see some nefarious groups making wholesale accusations against law enforcement, which - in theory, at least - could lead to the disarmament of entire police forces. 

[vaskidmark]

One wonders . . . is there an exception written into the law if said accusations are made against POLICE? I can see some nefarious groups making wholesale accusations against law enforcement, which - in theory, at least - could lead to the disarmament of entire police forces. 

Lautenberg has an exception for cops while on duty.  It was later tweaked to allow prison guards (yes, I know they like to be called correctional officers) to also touch real firearms while on the job.

Just remember, the MN law is about "domestic" behavior.  Unless a cop does it to a family member it would not count.

BTW -

United States Code, title 18, 9.24section 922(g)(8)

is not a valid citation.  Wonder if that would make all references as cited invalid?  (General dictate of court interpretation of statute is that the legislators knew full well what they meant and what they said.)

stay safe.

[DustinD]

TL/DR; Looks like no anti gun bills will get through this year, but it's not over yet though.

I had a nice post written up, but my phone eated it.

I made it to the capitol at 8:00am the hearing starts at 10:00am.

Serious shenanigans last Thursday. More details to follow. Like last year, access to the committee room has constantly shifting unfair rules. Our side showed up before our opponents did. Heather Martins, the paid by Joyce opposition leader was given thirty tickets to the committee room. We were not given any. They also cut in line with the help of Heather. Only the people that security personally witnessed cutting in line were kicked out of the line. They also changed meeting times at the last minute and only told our opponents, as per standard procedure.

I will keep editing this post throughout the day with running commentary and other information. Please forgive any phone induced typos.

9:03am Heather showed up. They have one other person present. We have about 15. Not a good turnout for us.

9:31   More people here. 20 on our side, 6 or so on theirs. Horrible turnout for us. Two of their people are trying to provoke trouble. Going to use my phone's recording function. Might need security.

9:40   Those two moustache guys are behaving themselves for the moment. Going to keep an eye on them.

9:47   "If they had any respect for women, they wouldn't have anyone here" repeated over and over, louder each time. Oh well. Harmless baiting.

9:50   More baiting. Stating we are trying to threaten them with our guns like last year. One of the main guys in GOCRA spoke to him, and did a beautiful job. Told him why we used guns last year in the show and tell session, showing the difference between a normal 10/22 and an "assault weapon" 10/22. Asked that guy if he felt threatened by us now, he said he didn't feel threatened, our guy asked why he felt threatened last year, their guy lost interest in the discussion and walked away. Note that this is the guy who testified against us, and capitol carry, last fall. Their side tried to claim we carried guns to intimidate their side.

Turnout for each side has improved. We have over 40, they might have 20 though. I was expecting well over a hundred for our side. We ended up with over 40 it seems, but the lack of notifications and such limited our numbers. Luckily it wasn't important to pack this hearing.

9:52    We are seated now.

10:08   Meeting started. Going to postpone gun bill I until 4:30pm Edit: never mind, something else is happening then.

10:12   Bill sponsor says it won't take guns without due process. Says bill is similar to fed law.

10:16   Bill was amended by author with help of pro gun reps. Both sides are going to give testimony now.

10:20   District attorney(I think) is saying some horrible anti gun things. Claims guns make domestic abuse significantly worse. Guns put police at huge risk in DV calls. She thinks this bill will disarm domestic violence situations. Seems to ignore that convicted DV already removes guns.

10:23   10 DV deaths from guns, 28 from other causes.

19:26   Moms Demand Action (a wholly owned subsidiary of Michael Bloomberg's MAIG) is up. Huge emotional plea. Guns increase rate of death for women by six times. She sounds almost like she us crying when she talks, very emotional.

10:28   Bre Adams is up. She is an anti DV activist. Says guns determine lethality. Wants those convicted of DV to be disarmed. Wants protection order to take guns and determine threat risk of abuser.

10:32   Story about an abuse victim. Says gun kept lady in relationship instead of escaping. Because abuser hasn't been convicted of his many crimes he still has guns.

10:35   Anti gun side is finished. Our side is up. Paymar the committee chair is being an *expletive deleted*.

10:37   Abused lady told story of her abuse. She is pro gun. Says protection order can't keep people safe. Says abusers are calculating and will get guns regardless of laws.

Wants to know if this bill would take her marriage community property guns away if his guns were seized by this bill. (She never gets an answer, because no one present knows)

10:40   Andrew Rothman is up he is our President of GOCRA. Thanking committee members and reps for working to fix the bill. He doesn't like the fact that the bill focuses on hardware. Wants to go after the abusers and the anger and abuse.

10:44   He wants serial numbers of guns temporarily turned over to be private, not public record.

10:46   Jim Franklin of MN sheriffs is up. He has concerns about this bill. Says DV is dangerous. Talking about storage issues. Time, space, HVAC, cost, liability, judge order to go back out. Other issues. Wants more guidance. Wants judges involved, thinks the bill is too blanket. Bill does not define police agency properly or specifically.

Q&A with sheriff and reps. Reasonable fee determination questions. Might have 400 different fees from all of the different MN police agencies.

Bill sponsor Rep thinks third party could take over if police can't store the weapon. Other agency, ffl, or any third party.

Question asked by a rep: "Do police accept guns from people if judges order it." Yes. Discussing liability. Sheriff's rep is discussing differences and current issues. He wants judges involved for both the receiving and giving back of firearms for liability reasons.

Paymar wants a vote on the bill. Many issues need to be discussed first.

11:01am  Pro gun rep has a concern over length of time to get a hearing to get guns back. Was a police officer and dealt with many DV issues.

11:07   Final comments before vote. Cornish (the most pro gun MN rep) has concerns about serial number registration in this case.

11:11   Says it's hard for state agencies to enforce fed laws. Wants state copies of fed laws. Bill passed this committee and went to judiciary committee. One nay vote from a pro gun rep because of unresolved issues.

Looks like the bill won't be anti gun by tomorrow. I might be there tomorrow to observe the pro gun amendments to it.

I talked to the president and VP of GOCRA. They think we will win.

Senator Latz likely won't fight his very anti gun version of this bill being amended to match the neutral/not-anti gun DV bill.

Looks like this will be the only gun bill to go through this year. We really dodged a bullet.

[DustinD]

An article from www.caintv.com: MN Democrat Rep. Keith Ellison says he 'wishes' his party would 'come out' against the 2nd Amendment.

A similar but more complete article www.nationalreview.com:  Dem. Rep. Agrees with Maher: ‘I Sure Wish’ Dems Would Come Out against 2nd Amendment.


Another hearing tomorrow. Won't be that important, we will have some people show up to make sure, and to monitor the changes to the domestic violence bill.

From GOCRA (Gun Owner Civil Rights) Update 2: "Domestic violence" bill (HF3238/SF2639)  This is an overview of what has happened at the capitol this year. Short version is that the originally very anti gun DV (Domestic violence) bill is now not anti gun, and just copies a bunch of federal laws to the state level.

[DustinD]

I'm at the capitol again today. This will likely be the last time I need to show up this year. We only have a few people, we didn't ask anyone to show up, so only GOCRA officials, people who want to speak, and my nosy self are here. The other side is not present as far as I can tell.

The domestic violence bill is in the judiciary committee. We are here to monitor some promised amendments that will make this bill not have any anti gun components.

2:20   Right now they are dealing with drugs and child prostitution.

2:35   Domestic violence bill is up. Speaker says it isn't anti an anti gun bill, can't seize guns without due process, and so on. (Dustin's opinion: This bill was pretty bad last week.) Speaker says he is thankful for everyone negotiating in good faith. He described the bill in detail.

2:40   Talking about amendments to this bill.

2:41   People are testifying about the bill. Saint Paul official is up. Testifying in favor of this bill. Says guns make DV worse. "Guns are instruments of torture" her whole testimony is referring to DV and guns. Says most mass shootings are DV related. (Is that true?) Various stats. DV are the most common police calls. She seemed pretty anti gun.

2:46   Domestic abuse advocate is up. Misc DV stats. Barely mentioning guns. Hasn't gone anti gun yet. Now sharing story of murdered lady, a murder suicide involving guns, she thinks this bill could have stopped it. (I strongly doubt that)

2:51   Andrew Rothman is up. President if GOCRA. (Gun Owner civil Rights Alliance) Says this bill is redundant. Says last story didn't need this law to remove guns. Says this bill would not cause judges to remove guns any more than now. He doesn't like the fixation on hardware. Says guns are not instruments of torture. Says their idea of the role of guns in DV is wrong. Mentioned that other hardware like knives and bats are not taken, lists many items including fists and boots that aren't seized. He did a great job.

2:55   Now answering previously asked questions about definitions that came up when the bill was being read.

3:00   Another GOCRA member is up. Talking about false accusations. Protection order hearing happens before criminal trial. It ties hands of defense. Strategy involves defense being neutral in no contact orders and similar. Adult protection services is a huge bureaucracy. Worked to turn his mother who has alzhiemers and dementia against him, mother was adamant he was innocent. A judge ruled in his favor, (possibly twice I don't recall.) Adult Protective Services went to another judge, received a no contact order. His charges were dismissed. Says police would search people's house on the forth day, of the three day window to turn stuff in because of lack of communication inherent in the system.

He wants stronger penalties for false accusations. Wants prohibition of forced restraining orders, refering to what happened to his mother, when advocates got her to go after him despite her wishes. Mentions that the first person who calls the police has too much power versus person who didn't call in DV police calls.

3:10   Q&A with him. Concerning issues of staying passive in protection hearing. OFP hearings can't use statements against you. Our guy was mistaken. He later, out in the hallway, mentioned a judge told him that. He seemed excited when one of our lawyers told him he can possibly have the order vacated because of it.

3:14   A female rep is talking about false allegations. Wants to hold the bill another week to work on it. Cornish (our most pro gun rep) wants the bill to go forward. Everyone agrees that the bill needs work.  Voice vote, ayes vs nays. Several nays. Should have had a formal vote in my opinion.

3:18pm  Bill moved to the floor. All done with gun stuff for the day.

The bill will be amended on the floor, seems like the Senate bill will then be amended to match the House bill. Numerous non gun amendments are needed on the House bill, I can check to see if any anti gun stuff hasn't been removed yet. I think the serial numbers from seized weapons being public record may be the only objectionable piece left that concerns gun ownership.

[charby]

There also seems to be issues of an Iowa based group called Minnesota Gun Rights. They stole half of our side's debate time and basically wasted it by not making any points. They are only in it for the money, and may be a false flag organisation.

The Dorrs are nobody's friends, professional shake down artists.

[DustinD]

Charby:   I will look into them further. They are causing problems for us. Luckily they weren't here this week.

[charby]

Charby:   I will look into them further. They are causing problems for us. Luckily they weren't here this week.

They cause plenty of problems in Iowa also. FYI, they also like to take credit for things other groups get accomplished.

Just Google: Paul Dorr and Aaron Dorr from Iowa.

[dm1333]

I'd say somebody should come out against Ellisons 1st Amendment rights but it is better to let him keep damning himself with his own words.

[DustinD]

Barb Goodwin, an anti gun Senator has a survey that she wants people to take. Many of the questions relate to gun control.

GOCRA just announced on their facebook page that they have introduced two bills. One in the House, and one in the Senate, that would eliminate the need for permits to carry. GOCRA president Andrew Rothman thinks this will take a few years to pass. The bills were introduced too late in this session to go through committee this year, but they could never get out of the current committees anyway. Luckily House committee chair Paymar won't run again, and hopefully Latz will lose enough seats in the Senate to where these bills can be heard next year.

[Triphammer]

No where does the survey  ask where you live.