Mountain/Trail Bike

[Ron]

With all the talk around here about getting in shape I am inspired to get a bike.

It will be used primarily on well kept trails in the local forrest preserves and some off the beaten path riding also.

I want one with full suspension that works,  not full suspension that is bouncy or for show.

The price range I am comfortable with is 500-750 bucks.  Is this realistic to get a good quality ride?

I am 6'1 and 210lbs,  the bike has to fit me or I won't use it.

Is there a type or brand I should look into first?

How about it folks,  any resident experts to point me in the right direction?

[Jamisjockey]

I'm going to have to say that $750 is the extreme low end of the full suspension market, where you can still get some quality, but you're making huge sacrifices in the quality of the suspension.  You might be able to score a decent used bike in the range, however.  You're going to get bouncy and floaty in that price range.  You can get an alot better hard-tailed bike in this price range.   A way to take some of the edge off the ride is to use a suspension seatpost.
A good place to start is www.supergo.com they've got a pretty nice FS bike for $799 I do believe.-edited:  I don't see the bike online, it was in thier catalog....., also check www. bikesdirect.com

Also, www.mtbr.com is a great place to check reviews on bikes.

[Ron]

Thanks for the review site,  I'll read up on whats available and whats best for me.  I guess I'll just have to read through the forum at the site also.

The amount of bikes out there is boggling.  I don't want to drop $$$ on something that is substandard and will break if I get rough with it.

[Harold Tuttle]

i have never owned a suspension bike
and unless i get back into hardcore downhill racing
i prolly won't

suspension adds 57 more moving parts to a system that doesn't really need it

i bombed many a rocky trail with "only" an unsuspended bike.

you don't need a springer bike to get started

[mtnbkr]

I too would stay away from FS unless you're prepared to spend the money to do it right.  Your legs will do a lot of the work that rear suspension would normally do (assuming you're standing).  I would definately get a good front suspension fork, but I can't begin to make a recommendation since I'm still riding my 7yo Klein with a 6yo Manitou fork (top of the line back then).  I doubt any of them are junk nowadays though.  Spend your money on a bike with a good frame.  Don't let the components sway you too much.  Those are easily replaced as necessary, the frame is the, well, frame of the bike.  If it sucks, only a new bike will cure it.

At your size, you'll want a 20" frame, or Large, however it's labled.  I'm 5'10" or so and ride the equiv of an 18.5" bike (medium).  If your inseam is long, you might be able to go with 180mm cranks rather than the standard 175mm ones.  This will give you more torque and let you "stretch your legs" a bit.  Even at my size, I like 180s.  Get the bike shop to fit a bike to your needs.  Don't feel like you have to "shop off the rack".  You can swap stems, handlebars, seatposts, and cranks to make a bike fit you better.  When you're spending several hundred dollars, don't be afraid to make it right for YOU.

Chris

[Ron]

Here is an IBEX I found with good reviews for 730 bucks.  http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/2005/IGN-3-Specs.html

I will be visiting some shops this week to actually sit/ride on some bikes.

My inseam is 34" so should I be looking at large/20.5" bikes?

Being a newbie I don't want to trust a bike shop right away.  They will want to sell me what they have not necessarily what is best.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Reading some of the reviews I noticed the older riders liked full suspension.  I would fit into the older rider catagory, lol.

In all reality money isn't that big an issue.  The number is an arbitrary one that I just pulled out of the air.  It seemed like a good point to start with me just starting out and all.

[mtnbkr]

That bike is a pig weight-wise.  32lbs?!!?  My hardtail (Klein) is 25lbs and could lose more weight easily.  I know FS bikes are heavier, but I haven't ridden a 32lb bike in nearly 15 years.  Dang.

I think that's a downhill specific bike.  I think you'll want something more general purpose, FS or not.  It'll ride well downhill or on the flats, but you'll hate it when you start climbing.

Chris

[Harold Tuttle]

heres a heck of a good deal:
http://www.ibexbikes.com/Bikes/ALP-350-Details.html

all kinds of well proven technology here

[Jamisjockey]

That coil spring is going to be bouncy...

Put some Deore derailleurs on that hardtail and it'd be pefect for him.

Supgergo was advertising this bike
http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=26067&lsubcat_id=7&lcat_id=7604&referpage=
For $799 in the mailing I got, might be worth a phonecall.

[mtnbkr]

Put some Deore derailleurs on that hardtail and it'd be pefect for him

Nah, the Alivios will be sufficient.  Even though they're low end, they'll works suprisingly well until they start to get sloppy from wear and tear.  That money's better spent on a good helmet, hydration (bottle or bladder type), and trail tools.

BTW, I'm sooo out of date on the current state of mountain bikes.  What's good out there?  Also, the travel listed for some forks is crazy.  Back when I bought my current fork (Manitou SX-Ti), anything over 3" was long.  Now I'm seeing forks with 5".  Is that total upward movement or upward movement after it settles from the rider's weight (preloaded)?  Seems like a new fork would really throw my bike's balance off.

Chris

[Jamisjockey]

I would have to say shocks, and disc brakes are where the biggest changes to bikes have happened.  Full suspension bikes are now 100% adjustible with the lockout rear shocks.  Front shocks that can be adjusted on the fly.  Air shocks can be dialed in for a rider's weight and riding size.   Hydraulic disc braked full suspension bikes that weigh around 26lbs!  
I have to admit, though, I'm not as up to date on mountain bikes as I am on road gear.  I'm defintely mostly a roadie, and the mountain bike thing is to keep me entertained and improve my handling skills.  I douldn't tell you what a really good front shock would be.  www.mtbr.com is a great site to browse for that sort of thing.

[mtnbkr]

Yeah, those things were just becoming commonplace when I stopped paying attention to the bike market.  The weight of the bikes is the only feature that's changed.  

I've been to mtbr before, but I'm so far out of date, I don't even know where to start.  It's not a big problem though.  My Manitou is still working fine as far as I can tell.  I probably need to take it apart and clean it, but it's fine for now.

Chris

[Ron]

There is so much out there it is overwhelming.

Like I said earlier,  this week I will be going to some shops in person to check out some bikes.

I appreciate the input you guys have given me.  I am still in the research mode. I am not jumping into anything yet.

Hijacking this thread into a general discussion about the bikes is cool with me,  the more I read and lurk the more knowledge I pick up.

[Jamisjockey]

There is so much out there it is overwhelming.

Like I said earlier,  this week I will be going to some shops in person to check out some bikes.

I appreciate the input you guys have given me.  I am still in the research mode. I am not jumping into anything yet.

Hijacking this thread into a general discussion about the bikes is cool with me,  the more I read and lurk the more knowledge I pick up.

Get out to some bike shops and browse thier wares.  There is alot out there, and personal preference is going to play a part in your decision.  Yes, they are going to try to sell you thier bikes, shop, compare, and don't be afraid to keep asking questions.

[mtnbkr]

Don't be afraid to ride those bikes around the parking lot, bumping up and down the curbs.  You need to know how it rides in a variety of conditions.

Chris

[Harold Tuttle]

the giant iguanna has always been a starter favorite ride
the 2005 model has disks and a front suspension

my current ride is a Grove Innovations Hardcore:
http://www.purplelizard.com/images/html/professional/grove.htm

a 1985 Jamis Dakar, a Schwinn King Sting and a 20 inch redline RLII freestyler round out the collection

[mtnbkr]

Been a long time since I heard the name "Giant Iguana".  That is a classic starter bike.  Disk brakes eh?  Either DBs have become ubiquitous or the Iguana got an upgrade.  Cool.

Chris

[Ron]

Update...
              been to two shops,  first shop carries Trek and Gary Fisher bikes.  the Trek 6700Disk looked real interesting.  Only rode around the lot on a 19.5 as that was the biggest they had.

Second shop had Giants and they had an Iguana in a large frame.  I took that bike out for a spin around the nieghborhood and became reasonably familier with it.  

I almost bought the Giant on the spot but decided to come home and think about it some more.  Thanks again for the input.  I think I will end up getting the Giant,  is there any compelling reason to reconsider the Trek?

                                       Ron

[mtnbkr]

Not unless things have changed significantly in the past few years.  Both are good companies.  That said, a 19.5" bike might not be too small for you if you can adjust the fit via a new stem and maybe a longer seatpost (if the stock one is maxed out).  Get the shop to swap stems on the Trek so you can check it out.  You want to be able to extend the seatpost so that your knee is just barely flexed when the pedal is at the bottom of the pedal stroke, yet not have the up positioned leg up under your chin (so to speak).  For your upper body, you want to be comfortably stretched out, but not so much that you're reaching for the handlebars, nor do you want to feel cramped.

Chris

[Ron]

We adjusted the seat all the way up on the Trek and it was still a touch to short.  I didn't get enough extension of my legs (long inseam).

I also noticed the stock seat on the Giant was lightyears better.  Sitting on the Trek for 5 minutes was  uncomfortable.  The thing was as hard as a slab of granite.  The Giant had some give and a cutout to keep the plumbing from getting pounded.

Both have disc brakes but the Giant is cheaper.  Don't know enough about the various componants to tell what is good and what is not.  

Here is the Iguana  http://www.giant-bicycle.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?model=11038&year=2005&search_text=Iguana

Here is the Trek  http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Mountain/Hardtail/Alpha_Aluminum/6700/index.php

[mtnbkr]

They make longer seatposts and seats are like holsters, you'll go through several to find "THE ONE".  

I'm not trying to push you in any direction, just trying to point out how customizable bikes are and what the shop should be doing for you to ensure the proper fit (bikes cost hundreds, if not thousands, they can swap a $30 seat or seatpost for you).  It might be that the 19.5" frame fits you better than a 20" frame if only you had a longer seatpost.  Or not...  A proper fitting bike is paramount if you plan to ride it for long periods of time.  Also, make sure you have 2.5"+ between your crotch and the top tube of the bike.  That right there might be a reason to go with 19.5 rather than 20" or 21".  

Looking at the two bikes, I couldn't make a recommendation based on paper specs.  The Trek is a higher end bike than the Iguana, but that doesn't make the Iguana a bad bike either.  If you like the Iguana, go for it.  BTW, when I first got serious about mtn biking back in the late 80s, the Iguana was a $300 bike.  I almost bought one, but a suprise gift of money from my uncle bumped me up to a higher price bracket.

Chris

[Harold Tuttle]

those suspended front ends certainly "f" with the frame geometry don't they?

look how long the seat post is inorder to get on the same level as the handlebars


the "hardcore" is a dang near level top tube

the main fit on the frame is the stretch on the arms
next is top tube clearence for emergency stand over

[Harold Tuttle]

http://videos.observedtrials.net/hosted/koxxdays%2005%20by%20felix.mpg

176 megs of observed trials action

[Jamisjockey]

There is a reason you want to be that much higher on a real trail bike.  Firstly, if you come off the seat forward, you don't want to crunch the boys on the top tube.
Secondly, when you're descending or taking a drop, you should drop the seat down so you can push your butt off the back of the saddle.
Yes, having the suspension does also require the changed frame angles, as it has to provide clearance for the suspension travel.