NHTSA proposes requiring vehicle to vehicle comm systems

[Balog]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/2014/NHTSA-issues-advanced-notice-of-proposed-rulemaking-on-V2V-communications

I admit I have never heard of this tech before now.

[TechMan]

Just wait till a hacker figures out how to get into it.   

[White Horseradish]

Isn't the middle finger the traditional V2V communication device?

[Fly320s]

So, TCAS for cars. I figured it would happen some day.

More ways to reduce driver ability to the minimum level.

[T.O.M.]

You think road rage is an issue now, just wait until people can trade insults without rolling down their windows.

[bedlamite]

You think road rage is an issue now, just wait until people can trade insults without rolling down their windows.

http://www.kleargear.com/1904.html

[MechAg94]

If we are going to have automated cars, we need more technology to allow cops to takeover your car.  Also for hackers to do the same. 

Can you imagine the new method for assassination?  Just hack the auto-drive system and make a small "change" at a critical time. 

[Balog]

Looking into it a bit more, google has >700,000 accident free miles on their self driving cars. But they always have a human in them I believe? No word on how often the human has to intervene. They also can't handle non-standard signals, heavy rain or snow etc. Still a ways off...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

[zahc]

Their "700 000 accident-free miles" is more like "70 miles driven accident-free 10000 times". They test their cars on pre scouted routes and admit they cannot cope with things like construction or detours or completely unfamiliar locations.

[brimic]

[Tallpine]

I thought that horns were already required 

  

[sanglant]

Just wait till a hacker figures out how to get into it.   

a whole new hell for women.

[RevDisk]

This is not necessarily "the man is taking over your car!" stuff. It could be locational, to let you know if a vehicle is in your blind spot. Or emergency, to let you know the car in front of you is violently decelerating or that the Mack truck behind you just lost his brakes.

If it's extremely short ranged, I'm not overly concerned. Cars already have built in networks, and yes, they can be hacked. Overtime security will generally tighten up. If you essentially make a read only wifi access point with a 100m transmission radius that exposes only some variables, it's not that bad.

[Tallpine]

Tent / camel nose

[KD5NRH]

This is not necessarily "the man is taking over your car!" stuff. It could be locational, to let you know if a vehicle is in your blind spot.

That's easily enough done with much simpler technology already implemented in backup warning systems; just point sensors off the corners.  Or teach people to adjust their mirrors properly so the blind spots are minimized.  Both have another significant advantage in that the hidden vehicle/cyclist/pedestrian/object doesn't have to be equipped with whatever sort of transmitter your car recognizes

Or emergency, to let you know the car in front of you is violently decelerating

Brake lights getting closer provide a pretty intuitive indication of that already.

or that the Mack truck behind you just lost his brakes.

And what can you do about that?  Run the light and take your chances with the cross traffic?  (Better hope you're first in line.)

[RevDisk]

That's easily enough done with much simpler technology already implemented in backup warning systems; just point sensors off the corners.  Or teach people to adjust their mirrors properly so the blind spots are minimized.  Both have another significant advantage in that the hidden vehicle/cyclist/pedestrian/object doesn't have to be equipped with whatever sort of transmitter your car recognizes

*shrug*  So write up your concerns and submit them for comment.

Brake lights getting closer provide a pretty intuitive indication of that already.

Not in a rain storm or snow storm.

And what can you do about that?  Run the light and take your chances with the cross traffic?  (Better hope you're first in line.)

*shrug* Was moreso thinking highway. But any warning is better than none. Best one I could think of would be loss of traction warnings from vehicles ahead of you. Basically black ice warning or whatnot.


I'm not claiming I think it's a particularly good idea. Just claiming it's not Tin Foil Time(tm) yet.  I'd be more upset at the increased vehicle costs than paranoia, conspiracy theory, liberty reasons. I significantly doubt the powers that be will mandate a GSM modem be included, as it'd be hideously expensive. If it's not always connected, it's not going to be a significant privacy threat. I still have no idea what overriding V2V capacities are needed, let alone wanted.

[KD5NRH]

Just claiming it's not Tin Foil Time(tm) yet.

Lots of people have said the same about every just-a-little-intrusive government action throughout history.

[French G.]

I think it is well beyond tinfoil time. If it is done right is like asking the federal government to adopt uniform firearms laws across the land and trusting that we'll all come out looking like Wyoming, Alaska, or Vermont.  Government of all levels has already proven itself incapable of doing right when sensing a chance to access cell phone data or existing vehicle systems like On-star. Any move towards smart cars, self-driving cars or anything similar is really just a play to know where every vehicle is at at all times. And pretty soon you are requesting to travel. I wonder if a state could mandate EZ-pass toll systems. That in itself would be a statist wank-bank, no need to collect toll everywhere but you could put a detector on every exit ramp. Might end up being like the Matrix, don't ever go on the limited access federal road.

[KD5NRH]

Any move towards smart cars, self-driving cars or anything similar is really just a play to know where every vehicle is at at all times.

The fact that they could already do this via cell phones is one of the reasons I really prefer a rooted Android; plenty of location-spoofing and location-adjusting (intercept the GPS data and apply an adjust) apps that work at a low enough level to fool anything that doesn't pull straight from the GPS receiver.  Not the most effective thing when you're heading down I20 with no parallel road a mile to the south, but once you're in a big city it can send them to a location that just might tip their hand.  (Cops around here are notorious for staging just out of sight of the target, and in full view of everyone else in the area, then wondering how the target found out in a town where everybody knows everybody.  Heck, a couple of times there have been photos of what's obviously staging for something posted to Facebook as it happens.)

[MicroBalrog]

It's already quite easy to know where a vehicle is at all times.

Self-driving cars (which are inevitable in our future, anyway) can also lead to an immense increase in personal freedom.

If the car drives itself and doesn't even have a steering wheel (and driverless cars are unlikely to have one), there's no point in driver's licensing, or rolling DUI checkpoints, or a whole variety of other things related to the above.

[Tallpine]

It's already quite easy to know where a vehicle is at all times.

Self-driving cars (which are inevitable in our future, anyway) can also lead to an immense increase in personal freedom.

If the car drives itself and doesn't even have a steering wheel (and driverless cars are unlikely to have one), there's no point in driver's licensing, or rolling DUI checkpoints, or a whole variety of other things related to the above.

You're assuming that everyone drives on streets or roads 

How would you, for instance - drive a wild land fire engine to a fire without a steering wheel 

Same thing for power line maintenance, oilfield operation, farmers/ranchers, etc etc etc ....

[MicroBalrog]

You're assuming that everyone drives on streets or roads 

How would you, for instance - drive a wild land fire engine to a fire without a steering wheel 

Same thing for power line maintenance, oilfield operation, farmers/ranchers, etc etc etc ....

That's a tiny fraction of the vehicles that exist.

[French G.]

It's already quite easy to know where a vehicle is at all times.

Self-driving cars (which are inevitable in our future, anyway) can also lead to an immense increase in personal freedom.

If the car drives itself and doesn't even have a steering wheel (and driverless cars are unlikely to have one), there's no point in driver's licensing, or rolling DUI checkpoints, or a whole variety of other things related to the above.

Know where a vehicle is, a lot different than know where all vehicles are.  Autonomous vehicles are a statist dream. No one could be allowed to drive a regular vehicle mixed in with self-piloted ones. All vehicles would be tracked. Within a short time permission would be asked to travel. Travel could be terminated on a whim by anyone with access to the controlling systems. Not really sure why libertarian types are clamoring for this.

[Hawkmoon]

So, TCAS for cars. I figured it would happen some day.

More ways to reduce driver ability to the minimum level.

I agree completely.

Have y'all seen the commercials for the new car model with collision warning and blind spot warning systems? (They are common these days.) There's one showing a guy motoring along on (presumably) his daily commute and having one close call after another -- all neatly avoided by his high-tech car. My reaction when I saw it was, "Learn how to drive, you jerk!" These systems are only needed by the people who think it's a good idea to read and send text messages while driving.

(Oh, wait -- maybe that makes this technology 100 percent mandatory.)

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/10/ford-adds-auto-braking-pedestrian-detection-to-collision-warning-system.html

But with technology like this already available, why do we need cars to converse with one another? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOVk93PJ-rg

[Tallpine]

That's a tiny fraction of the vehicles that exist.

So ... 

It's interesting how people who live in cities think the rest of the world doesn't exist and/or doesn't matter.