Cuba

[Hawkmoon]

What does the hive mind think about the decision to reestablish diplomatic relations with Cuba?

I'm sort of (well, pretty much) on the fence. I don't like the Communist regime at all, and even after all these years, our decision to reestablish diplomatic relations can (and undoubtedly will) be portrayed by the Castros as a win for them over the evil, imperialist United States. My brother-in-law in Sudamerica thinks it should not have happened until both Castros are under the ground, which he thinks will result in a movement back to democracy. I think I agree with that. Yet the Cuban-American population in North Havana (a.k.a. Miami) seems to be VERY unhappy about it.

On the other hand ... there's Russia, once again projecting its power and generally messing with other sovereign nations' sovereignty. Am I alone in thinking that this move by the U.S. could well be an attempt to blunt Russian influence in Cuba, with the aim of reducing the likelihood of a second Cuban missile crisis? I was in college when that went down. I can tell you that EVERYONE on our dorm floor was wide awake and glued to the radios and TVs while that was being played out. Whether you like or dislike JFK -- he didn't blink.

[Tuco]

What do I think???

Cigars and Tarpon fishing.
'effabuncha 90 y.o. commies, I'm going fishing.

[Ben]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, what has the embargo accomplished? On the other, what would "normalizing" relations achieve to steer Cuba away from communism? The US isn't the only country in the world. The entire time our embargo has been going on, Cuba has been interacting with a whole bunch of other "free" countries. Europeans visit Cuba in vast numbers. As do Canadians (and a bunch of Americans via Canada). Cuba has had plenty of exposure to democracy over the years, but hasn't changed. I just don't know how the US now interacting with Cuba in a "friendly" way will make a difference one way or the other.

I'm not even that thrilled about the cigars. The best cigar makers took their leaf and left in the 50's.

[cordex]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, what has the embargo accomplished? On the other, what would "normalizing" relations achieve to steer Cuba away from communism?

Further, why do we care what form of tyranny a country sports?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Well when they shoot down planes in international airspace it's problematic. Especially when planes take off from Florida


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[never_retreat]

Meh... Its long over due.
But the news here is obsessed with opening up relations to get a fugitive from NJ that killed a trooper back in 1978 or something like that.
I had an argument with a coworker, just because the embargo gets dropped does not mean there going to honor extradition. Because I'm sure there are some Cubans here they would want back.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

No usually the Cubans are tickled pink to send their murderers here


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[MechAg94]

Since we are already doing business with China, I am not sure them being communist is the best reason to continue the embargo.  there may be other good reasons.

[Scout26]

Opening up relations with Cuba benefits them  more then it does us.  There's nothing Cuba has that we want or need.  (All the good cigars come from elsewhere.  Communism and Castro has ruined the one major item other then sugar, that Cuba could export.)

And Castro can run around saying that it got the US to blink.  Obama once again reduces the power and prestige of the US by his unilateral action (without, again consulting or even briefing Congress).

IIRC, there is even a US Laws that deal with Cuba, none of which seem to matter to Obama.

Helms–Burton Act and the Cuban Democracy Act:  Neither of which the President can "change" and which has the following provision:

Several laws control the embargo. Among the most recent is the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act (codified in Chapter 69 of Title 22, U.S. Code). Section 6005 of the law outlines sanctions imposed against Cuba – the qualified blockade, prohibition on some financial transactions, and limitation on remittances.

But then there is Section 6007, the waiver provision. This tells us that, while it is true that it would require an act of Congress to repeal the restrictions on Cuba, no legislation is necessary to ignore the restrictions. The act empowers the president to do that on his own. All he needs to do is represent to Congress that the Cuban government

    (1) has held free and fair elections conducted under internationally recognized observers;

    (2) has permitted opposition parties ample time to organize and campaign for such elections, and has permitted full access to the media to all candidates in the elections;

    (3) is showing respect for the basic civil liberties and human rights of the citizens of Cuba;

    (4) is moving toward establishing a free market economic system; and

    (5) has committed itself to constitutional change that would ensure regular free and fair elections that meet the requirements of paragraph (2).

From here: http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2014/12/18/what-part-of-keeping-cuba-isolated-has-not-worked/

I think this sums up my feelings nicely:

https://pubsecrets.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/recognizing-cuba-what-do-we-get-out-of-the-deal/

[wmenorr67]

Opening up relations with Cuba benefits them  more then it does us.  There's nothing Cuba has that we want or need.  (All the good cigars come from elsewhere.  Communism and Castro has ruined the one major item other then sugar, that Cuba could export.)

And Castro can run around saying that it got the US to blink.  Obama once again reduces the power and prestige of the US by his unilateral action (without, again consulting or even briefing Congress).

IIRC, there is even a US Laws that deal with Cuba, none of which seem to matter to Obama.

Helms–Burton Act and the Cuban Democracy Act:  Neither of which the President can "change" and which has the following provision:
From here: http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2014/12/18/what-part-of-keeping-cuba-isolated-has-not-worked/

I think this sums up my feelings nicely:

https://pubsecrets.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/recognizing-cuba-what-do-we-get-out-of-the-deal/

Whole bunch of 50's and 60's era cars.

[Jamisjockey]

The embargo has reached the point of being...well...pointless.
50 years.  And there are plenty of countries with normal relations with Cuba. 
And the President's actions still face congressional oversight.  They can choose to not build an embassy.  They can choose to not lift or modify the embargo. 
But I think it's time.  Cuba is a mere 90 miles from us.  Let's try something different, because what we've been doing isn't working.

[RocketMan]

I believe the whole point of Obama normalizing relations with Cuba was to give the US a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.  Anything that diminishes the US in the eyes of the world is a personal win to Obama, given how he actively dislikes this country.

[brimic]

I believe the whole point of Obama normalizing relations with Cuba was to give the US a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.  

That.
I'm sick of the meme that Cuba is poor and their citizens are hungry because the US is a big meanie who won't trade with them- the rest of the world can trade with them.
Cuba is a *expletive deleted*it heap because its run by communists.
The only thing that opening relations with Cuba will do will be to put another country onto our humanitarian welfare roles.
Its almost certain that there are plans to send billion$ to CUba on a yearly basis to bail their communist regime out.

[Jamisjockey]

That.
I'm sick of the meme that Cuba is poor and their citizens are hungry because the US is a big meanie who won't trade with them- the rest of the world can trade with them.
Cuba is a *expletive deleted*it heap because its run by communists.
The only thing that opening relations with Cuba will do will be to put another country onto our humanitarian welfare roles.
Its almost certain that there are plans to send billion$ to CUba on a yearly basis to bail their communist regime out.

Oh I don't believe that they're poor because of us.  I just don't believe that the current state of affairs is accomplishing anything. 

[TommyGunn]

Oh I don't believe that they're poor because of us.  I just don't believe that the current state of affairs is accomplishing anything. 

What do you think of the idea that opening up relations with Cuba will only further enrich the ruling class and further entrench them in power? 

[MechAg94]

Since Obama is both a Communist and a Muslim, I am waiting for him to try to normalize relations with Iran next.

[SADShooter]

If Cuba was an untapped economic goldmine, Europe and Central/South American interests would have exploited it already. Any investment will enrich the regime and military. Politically, this is a deliberate poke in the eye for the U.S., a short-term distraction, and sacrifices any leverage the embargo could have applied to greater freedom for the Cuban people. As I said in the other thread, more demonstration of American weakness and concession with no reciprocal gain.

Also interesting to note that in the effusive praise of Pope Francis for his mediation, I haven't heard any mention of the clergy murdered, executed, imprisoned, or exiled as a result of the Glorious People's Revolution.

[brimic]

Also interesting to note that in the effusive praise of Pope Francis for his mediation, I haven't heard any mention of the clergy murdered, executed, imprisoned, or exiled as a result of the Glorious People's Revolution.

pope francis is cut from the same globalist cloth as obama. The Catholic Church is to Pope Francis as the the United States is to Obama- Western institutions that need to be marginalized and/or destroyed to meet their goals of bringing the populace down to the least common denominator around the world.
There are several Protestant/Evangelical 'christian' organizations who are going down the same path. The 'children' coming across the southern border are being aided and abetted by 'christian' organizations who are raking in millions (in some cases hundreds of millions) in federal aid to distribute and house these illegals around the country.

[Scout26]

But I think it's time.  Cuba is a mere 90 miles from us.  Let's try something different, because what we've been doing isn't working.

Define "working".

[charby]

Let's go dig up Meyer Lansky and his cronies, time for them to reopen Havana!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTRkFMrNjTk

Now time to find a cigarette boat and the chick from the Drambuie commercial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir_klWXm8oo&feature=player_embedded

[Tuco]

Further, why do we care what form of tyranny a country sports?

Dictators wingshooting at Cuba and points south do have?

[Balog]

As others have pointed out the embargo is still in place. Obama is asking Congress to lift it, but the embargo is a law that he can't just EO away.

[TechMan]

As others have pointed out the embargo is still in place. Obama is asking Congress to lift it, but the embargo is a law that he can't just EO away.

You want to bet?  Why would he bother letting that stop him.


ETA: Correct spelling

[brimic]

You want to bet?  Why would he both letting that stop him.

I'm with you. This is the most lawless administration in my lifetime.

[Perd Hapley]

Since Obama is both a Communist and a Muslim, I am waiting for him to try to normalize relations with Iran next.

Do you seriously think Barack Obama cares one whit about Islam, Christianity, or any other religion?