Cruz Derangement Syndrome

[Perd Hapley]

There's no other way to explain it. 

[Fly320s]

Who is deranged, Cruz or his supporters?

[Ron]

There is irrational dislike of him even among folks who should be his supporters.

The media propaganda against him has been very effective.

The fact both the D's and R establishment hate his policy positions has helped the irrationality along.

[Ron]

This article is somewhat related to the OP.

Cruz just doesn't line up with the establishment agenda very well. He may fold on some stuff if elected but he doesn't seem to be their toady.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/02/the_establishments_path_to_victory.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

[AJ Dual]

That's the real shame, the angry voters backing Trump... if they really wanted to "hurt" the beltway crowd, Cruz is who they want.

[Perd Hapley]

There is irrational dislike of him even among folks who should be his supporters.

Well that, and the birtherism.

[mtnbkr]

That's the real shame, the angry voters backing Trump... if they really wanted to "hurt" the beltway crowd, Cruz is who they want.

Trump will "build a wall" and "force" people and companies to "do things".  People want a dictator, not a leader.

Chris

[brimic]

Trump will "build a wall" and "force" people and companies to "do things".  People want a dictator, not a leader.

Chris

Ayep. If people actually listens to the things Trump says and the the things he's said in the past, they would run, not walk away from him.

[roo_ster]

1. Always expect the Dems and further left to go Full Nazipoo-slinging on whomever the GOPPOTUS nominee might be.  And then to go after whichever GOPPOTUStential candidate they think is furthest right in the GOP primary race.  "Evil Bushitler R-money Womanhater McCainiac for $200, Alex."

2. Same crowd will also try to brand the GOPPOUTS nominee as stupid, much more stupid than such "thoughtful" sorts as folk who think like they do.

3. Triple intensity if the GOPPOTUS nominee is loud & proud about their Christianity.

4. MSM will aid in tasks #1 through #3.

There is irrational dislike of him even among folks who should be his supporters.

1. GOPe thinks otherwise.  Cruz throwing them under his campaign bus is not something they look kindly upon.  Even if Cruz is still the usual suck-up to the money behind GOPe.

2. Others who "should be his supporters" have listened to how Cruz says one thing to his Christian enthusiasts and another thing to inconvenient Christians & twinkles mcmoneybags.  And thus rate him on-par with Trump in the integrity/likely follow-through department.

Trump will "build a wall" and "force" people and companies to "do things".  People want a dictator, not a leader.

People want a fire ship, not a dictator or a leader.

A fire ship or fireship, used in the days of wooden rowed or sailing ships, was a ship filled with combustibles, deliberately set on fire and steered (or, where possible, allowed to drift) into an enemy fleet, in order to destroy ships, or to create panic and make the enemy break formation...An explosion ship or hellburner was a variation on the fire ship, intended to cause damage by blowing up in proximity to enemy ships.

And they think Trump will blow the hell out of Dem & GOP establishment, and the moneybags behind them both.

[Fitz]

And they think Trump will blow the hell out of Dem & GOP establishment, and the moneybags behind them both.

I find that hard to swallow from a candidate like trump

eminent domain, etc.

[Perd Hapley]

1. Always expect the Dems and further left to go Full Nazipoo-slinging on whomever the GOPPOTUS nominee might be.  And then to go after whichever GOPPOTUStential candidate they think is furthest right in the GOP primary race.  "Evil Bushitler R-money Womanhater McCainiac for $200, Alex."

2. Same crowd will also try to brand the GOPPOUTS nominee as stupid, much more stupid than such "thoughtful" sorts as folk who think like they do.

3. Triple intensity if the GOPPOTUS nominee is loud & proud about their Christianity.

4. MSM will aid in tasks #1 through #3.

We're not talking about them. We're talking about you.

2. Others who "should be his supporters" have listened to how Cruz says one thing to his Christian enthusiasts and another thing to inconvenient Christians & twinkles mcmoneybags.  And thus rate him on-par with Trump in the integrity/likely follow-through department.

I doubt most of his detractors are aware of the those things. But I could be wrong.

[roo_ster]

We're not talking about them. We're talking about you.

Well, then you are clueless and unwilling to look at:
1. Empirical evidence such as Cruz's own words and actions.
2. Reasonable explanations by folks with serious misgivings regarding Cruz, based on his words and actions.

But keep calling it "Cruz Derangement Syndrome" if it makes you feel better about things.  Similar reasonable objections to Obama and his policies didn't stop BHO's supporters from labeling that opposition "racism."

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

If he gets the nod, I'll vote for him. Cruz running as anti establishment is laughable. He's been establishment since he joined up in 1999 as a policy adviser for Bush. Mix that with the big money he has happily accepted, and you have someone who is beholdind to special interests group(s). He's better than any Dem. But he ain't what he wants you the see him as.

[Perd Hapley]

Well, then you are clueless and unwilling to look at:
1. Empirical evidence such as Cruz's own words and actions.
2. Reasonable explanations by folks with serious misgivings regarding Cruz, based on his words and actions.

I've looked at some of it. How could any of it be worse than Donald Trump's very dubious past? It doesn't make sense.

But keep calling it "Cruz Derangement Syndrome" if it makes you feel better about things.  Similar reasonable objections to Obama and his policies didn't stop BHO's supporters from labeling that opposition "racism."

Hah. Cute. "Reasonable objections." No, I'm talking about people, on a different forum, who won't get behind Cruz because of their misgivings about whether he's a "natural born citizen." You see, the framers (according to these folks) defined "natural born citizen" in such a way that Cruz ain't one. Therefore, they can't trust that Cruz is an originalist (despite his being probably the most originalist candidate since James Madison), and they insist he shouldn't even run until the courts rule on what "natural-born citizen" means. That's derangement.

[roo_ster]

I've looked at some of it. How could any of it be worse than Donald Trump's very dubious past? It doesn't make sense.

I do not know that it is worse, other than its premeditation and more recent vintage.

Cruz is clever in a lawyerly fashion, smart, and puts forethought into (most) his actions.  He knows what his is doing when he  argues it flat in front of one crowd, but argues it round to another.  Were he more than usually trustworthy (for a policritter) he would be a very promising choice for a conventional conservative nominee.  [Well, he still has his charisma deficit, but I can overlook that.]

Trump is not nearly so premeditated in his words & actions.  Other than his big populist issues (the national question, trade) I discern little ideological or philosophical rigor over the time he has been a public figure.  And as for the raft of issues on which Trump has been "born again conservative," he is little different from Romney & McCain (or any number of GOP candidates) on a similar-sized raft.  Or Cruz on the national question.

Thus, I rate it a wash between the two on the Duplicity Metric.  Since Trump is addressing the most pressing issue with the most vigor while Cruz is a "me-too" also-ran on the hook of his moneylenders, Trump gets my nod. 

Also, Cruz is not a change agent.  He would tinker and stitch up the GOP to some greater or lesser extent.  That is not what I seek. Trump has the potential to be the catalyst for a rather profound political realignment.  If Trump can hole the GOP below hte waterline, while consolidating nationalists and stealing populists from the Democrats (AKA, Reagan Democrats), we might beat back collapse and gain some time before it goes TU.  Heck, just energizing nationalists is more good that Cruz is likely to accomplish as tax collector for the welfare state.

Hah. Cute. "Reasonable objections." No, I'm talking about people, on a different forum, who won't get behind Cruz because of their misgivings about whether he's a "natural born citizen." You see, the framers (according to these folks) defined "natural born citizen" in such a way that Cruz ain't one. Therefore, they can't trust that Cruz is an originalist (despite his being probably the most originalist candidate since James Madison), and they insist he shouldn't even run until the courts rule on what "natural-born citizen" means. That's derangement.

That is not what you wrote in your earlier post:

We're not talking about them. We're talking about you.

These are contradictory statements.

Just because you do not agree with every subjective call that I or others make does not mean it does not make any less sense than your (apparent) support of Cruz.  Using your standards, I could (were I intellectually lazy) accuse you and others of "Trump Derangement Syndrome" instead of following your reasoning.  Because I make different calls does not deprive your decision of reason or sense.

[Perd Hapley]

Not contradictory. Your first reply started with a statement about how the Left will always savage the GOP candidate. While true, that is not the phenomenon of which I speak.

When I said, "we're talking about you," I meant the people one would expect to be Cruz's constituency. Some of you exhibit more Cruz derangement than others.

As far as my "Trump derangement," feel free to accuse me thereof. We'll see if it sticks.

[MechAg94]

I find it amusing.  All the reasons people should be weary of Trump, the Trumpkins are accusing Cruz of the same things.  At the same time, supporting Trump because of statements against illegal immigration even though you have very little reason to expect Trump will actually follow though on any of it. 

Either way, it will be a full on Hilary love fest in the media come summer time if not sooner. 

[HankB]

The fact both the D's and R establishment hate his policy positions has helped the irrationality along.

The local rag, the Austin American-Statesman, has a couple of daily columns titled "From the left" and "From the right" respectively, with different writers for each day of the week.

Lately, they're looking and sounding more alike - while the "From the left" column is modeling itself on circa-1980 Pravda, the "From the right" column seems to be coming right out of the DNC, with recent columns praising Bernie Sanders, rabidly attacking Trump, condemning Cruz, disparaging Carson, and scolding the 70% of GOP voters who have bought into the anti-GOP leadership libels of people like Ann Coulter and are upset with the GOP establishment. (I'm tempted to write a letter to the editor suggesting they re-title these columns "From the looney left" and "From the left".)

Considering both the nature of the attacks and who they're coming from, I'm only more convinced that one of the "outsiders" is a better choice than any "establishment" candidate. 

[Ron]

I really just don't buy Trump as an outsider.

He is an insider that is muscling in on the action.

After a lifetime of swimming in the same waters as the elite he realized he could school them at their own game.

[AJ Dual]

The local rag, the Austin American-Statesman, has a couple of daily columns titled "From the left" and "From the right" respectively, with different writers for each day of the week.

Lately, they're looking and sounding more alike - while the "From the left" column is modeling itself on circa-1980 Pravda, the "From the right" column seems to be coming right out of the DNC, with recent columns praising Bernie Sanders, rabidly attacking Trump, condemning Cruz, disparaging Carson, and scolding the 70% of GOP voters who have bought into the anti-GOP leadership libels of people like Ann Coulter and are upset with the GOP establishment. (I'm tempted to write a letter to the editor suggesting they re-title these columns "From the looney left" and "From the left".)

Considering both the nature of the attacks and who they're coming from, I'm only more convinced that one of the "outsiders" is a better choice than any "establishment" candidate. 

The other blind spot people have in this election is that it's a two-axis political graph.

X axis,  collectivist/Left vs. individualist/Right
Y axis, libertarian vs. authoritarian

And people conflate things they don't like, almost at random, with the simplistic Left/Right one dimensional axis.

[Perd Hapley]

The other blind spot people have in this election is that it's a two-axis political graph.

X axis,  collectivist/Left vs. individualist/Right
Y axis, libertarian vs. authoritarian

And people conflate things they don't like, almost at random, with the simplistic Left/Right one dimensional axis.

Knock it off with that fancy-talk, you commie Democrat!! 

[roo_ster]

The other blind spot people have in this election is that it's a two-axis political graph.

X axis,  collectivist/Left vs. individualist/Right
Y axis, libertarian vs. authoritarian

And people conflate things they don't like, almost at random, with the simplistic Left/Right one dimensional axis.

Blind spot or merely different perspective?  The biggest blind spot thus far in the primary season is that of the domesticated conservative commentariat and its followers pointing and spluttering that trump is "not a true comservative."

True or false, it is largely irrelevant.

[MechAg94]

Blind spot or merely different perspective?  The biggest blind spot thus far in the primary season is that of the domesticated conservative commentariat and its followers pointing and spluttering that trump is "not a true comservative."

True or false, it is largely irrelevant.

I don't know what a "true conservative" is.  I see stuff like that mentioned all the time also.  Seems like a lot of people have different ideas about what that is.  I want a limited govt type conservative who respects the original language and meaning of the Constitution.  I don't think Trump is that guy.  Nor is Rubio.  Cruz seems to be that guy or close to it.  

That said, Trump and Rubio would be immensely better than Obama, Hilary, or Sanders.  At this point, I think I would take Trump over Rubio.  Cruz is still my #1.  

When all is said and done, we have better choices on the Republican ticket this time than we did the last couple ...four or five elections in a really long damn time.    

[seeker_two]

At this point, I have no problem with voting for Cruz, some problems with voting for Rubio or Kasich, and major problems with voting for Trump. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.....

[charby]

There is chocolate in my peanut butter