There went California

[HeroHog]

There went California

http://abc7.com/1410013/

Friday, July 01, 2016 12:42PM
SACRAMENTO -- Gov. Jerry Brown signed six stringent gun-control measures Friday that will require people to turn in high-capacity magazines and mandate background checks for ammunition sales.

Brown's action will require people who own magazines that hold more than 10 rounds to give them up. It extends a 1999 law that made it illegal to buy a high-capacity magazine or to bring one into the state but allowed people who already owned them to keep them.

In another attempt to slow reloading, the governor signed a bill outlawing new weapons that have a device known as a bullet button. Gun makers developed bullet buttons to get around a California's assault weapons ban, which prohibited new rifles with magazines that can be detached without the aid of tools. A bullet buttons allows a shooter to quickly dislodge the magazine using the tip of a bullet or other small tool.

People will be allowed to keep weapons they already own with bullet buttons, which are often referred to as "California compliant."

...Brown also endorsed a bill making another attempt at regulating ammunition sales after a law passed in 2009 was struck down by a Fresno County judge who said it was too vague. The new bill will require ammo sellers to be licensed and buyers to undergo background checks. Transactions will be recorded.

He also opted to require a background check before a gun can be loaned to someone who isn't a family member.

[zxcvbob]

There went California

http://abc7.com/1410013/

I gave up on California a long time ago.    (what's taking that Long Valley caldera so long??)

[RocketMan]

Oregon won't be far behind in my opinion, given that they went permanently lefty Democrat some years back.
I'm sure glad I escaped that place (though I do miss the scenery).

[BobR]

Oregon won't be far behind in my opinion, given that they went permanently lefty Democrat some years back.
I'm sure glad I escaped that place (though I do miss the scenery).

And then the west side of WA will drag the rest of the state into a liberal hell hole. The Californians that didn't stop in OR went to the west side of WA. Hopefully it can be held off for a couple more years and I will retire to ID.

bob

[Angel Eyes]

There went California

(this is a bit lengthy, and might be better in the Politics section)


New restrictions include a ban on possession of magazines holding more than 10 rounds.  Manufacture, importation, and sale of same has been illegal since 2000.  Takes effect July 1 2017 so residents have a year to decide what to do with them.  Illegal possession of a hi-cap mag will be an infraction with a $100 fine.

Restrictions on ammo:
Starting 1/1/18, all sales must go through a licensed vendor. There are some exclusions for hunting clubs, ranges, etc.

Starting 7/1/19, all sales through vendors will require the vendor to record and transmit to the Cali DOJ a record of purchase. ID, address, date, specific type and amount of ammo and more. Only a few exemptions exist for this requirement.

Starting 7/1/19, all sales must be approved electronically by the vendor.

Starting 7/1/19, cannot purchase ammo out of state and bring it into CA unless the ammo has been delivered to a vendor for processing per these laws.

(at least folks have until 1/1/2018 to stock up)

So-called "assault weapons":
The definition of AW has been expanded to include rifles with magazine locks that release the mag with the use of a tool (so-called "bullet buttons").  Owners of such firearms will have to register them with the state.

As bad as today was, it could have been worse.  There were five other bills that Brown vetoed:

AB1176: Would have asked voters to make it a felony to steal a gun or buy a stolen gun, regardless of value.

AB1673: Would have expanded the definition of firearm to include unfinished receivers

AB1674: Would have made it illegal to purchase or transfer more than one firearm, including rifles and shotguns, within 30 days.

AB2607: Would have expanded who can seek a gun-violence restraining order to temporarily prohibit a person from purchasing a gun or ammunition.

SB894: Would have made it a crime for gun owners to fail to report a firearm as lost or stolen within five days.

                                                    *                 *                 *

Some of the new restrictions are probably motivated by political rivalries.  The lieutenant governor, Gavin Newsom, has an initiative on the November ballot that would impose basically the same restrictions on magazines and ammunition.   Newsom will be running for governor when Brown's term ends and is using this initiative to generate some buzz for his candidacy.  By legislating these restrictions a few months before November, Brown and the Democrats in the legislature have effectively stolen Newsom's thunder.

Unfortunately, liberty suffers either way.

[De Selby]

California is largely composed of pro gun counties.  This is the result of very careful gerrymandering.

[Ben]

California is largely composed of pro gun counties.  This is the result of very careful gerrymandering.

Unfortunately many of the pro gun counties are filled with people who want free stuff. The voters don't care one way or the other about guns. They care about their EBT. They vote for legislators that will give them their free stuff. The legislators that run on the "free stuff" platform are always either anti-gun, or will simply vote their party on all anti-gun measures.

Somewhat conversely, a perusal of CalGuns yesterday showed me that there are still a high number of dingbat, oblivious gun owners in CA. At least from the "How did this happen? Where did this come from?" posts.

[lupinus]

Unfortunately many of the pro gun counties are filled with people who want free stuff. The voters don't care one way or the other about guns. They care about their EBT. They vote for legislators that will give them their free stuff. The legislators that run on the "free stuff" platform are always either anti-gun, or will simply vote their party on all anti-gun measures.

Somewhat conversely, a perusal of CalGuns yesterday showed me that there are still a high number of dingbat, oblivious gun owners in CA. At least from the "How did this happen? Where did this come from?" posts.

Hence the problem with allowing bread and circuses to start in the first place, and then allowing them to expand and create a welfare class that retains all the rights and privileges of productive folks.

[HankB]

Starting 7/1/19, cannot purchase ammo out of state and bring it into CA unless the ammo has been delivered to a vendor for processing per these laws.

Difficult to enforce without border checkpoints, and may run into difficulty with Federal laws that deal with restraints on interstate commerce. (IANAL, so legal eagles, please weigh in on this.)

[Angel Eyes]

Difficult to enforce without border checkpoints, and may run into difficulty with Federal laws that deal with restraints on interstate commerce. (IANAL, so legal eagles, please weigh in on this.)

California already has border checkpoints for agricultural inspections, so adding checks for ammo would be fairly easy.

Also, California LE already work undercover at NV gun shows, looking for cars with CA plates.  If they see the owners buying stuff that's illegal in CA (e.g., 30-round magazines), they follow the vehicle and pop them after they cross the state line.  I imagine they'll start looking for bulk ammo purchasers as well.

I'm hoping the ammo ban gets struck down in the courts.  While IANAL, it seems like a blatant attempt by Sacramento to regulate interstate commerce, which is reserved for the Feds.

[Ben]

California already has border checkpoints for agricultural inspections, so adding checks for ammo would be fairly easy.

Also, California LE already work undercover at NV gun shows, looking for cars with CA plates.  If they see the owners buying stuff that's illegal in CA (e.g., 30-round magazines), they follow the vehicle and pop them after they cross the state line.  I imagine they'll start looking for bulk ammo purchasers as well.

I'm hoping the ammo ban gets struck down in the courts.  While IANAL, it seems like a blatant attempt by Sacramento to regulate interstate commerce, which is reserved for the Feds.

LE probably wouldn't be so gung ho about it if all these new laws once again didn't have "LE exemptions". I'm pretty sure every one of them does.

Also, while they might stake out gun shows, there are a lot of other places to buy ammo in bulk. While I might not do so at the Reno Cabela's, I wouldn't worry about doing it at the Boise Cabela's.

I think if they tried to turn the ag stations into "multi-purpose" checkpoints to include ammo, that might get people worked up, even non-gun owners. Especially if they tried to work in any searches. Especially the first time they searched the vehicle of an anti-gun lib coming back from a pot buy in Oregon.

Right now it's, "Do you have any fruits or vegetables?" "No." "Okay, thank you." I'm not sure that I've ever come to a complete stop at one. I'd be interested in hearing from the attorneys here what probable cause there would be for an ag/ammo station to search your vehicle.

[Angel Eyes]

http://www.flashreport.org/blog/2016/03/16/ca-assembly-public-safety-committee-doesnt-pay-too-much-attention-to-the-constitution/

But the law and the Constitution have never stopped the California Legislature. In fact, Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,” when Paredes pointed out the unconstitutionality of AB 1673.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

[tokugawa]

LE probably wouldn't be so gung ho about it if all these new laws once again didn't have "LE exemptions". I'm pretty sure every one of them does.

 "Retired" LEO's also get a pass.  We are devolving into a class society, not just on income or "privilege", but under actual black letter law.  The law giving retired officers license to carry anywhere is another one that sets them up as a "better" class of citizen.  I have gotten into it with retired LEO's on various "conservative" sites on this subject and universally the response is, "well, yeah, we got the goodies, that's just the way it is".  Few were willing to acknowledge the FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF  EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW this entails.

 

  

[Ben]

"Retired" LEO's also get a pass.  We are devolving into a class society, not just on income or "privilege", but under actual black letter law.  The law giving retired officers license to carry anywhere is another one that sets them up as a "better" class of citizen.  I have gotten into it with retired LEO's on various "conservative" sites on this subject and universally the response is, "well, yeah, we got the goodies, that's just the way it is".  Few were willing to acknowledge the FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF  EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW this entails.

Yes, good point - retired LE get the same exemptions. Good points on the rest of your response as well.

[AJ Dual]

California is at the point RKBA-wise where the TOS precludes me from saying what needs to be done.

[HankB]

. . .  Few were willing to acknowledge the FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF  EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW this entails.

I feel the same way about laws that give special protection to government employees - for example "special" laws that include extra penalties if someone assaults a government employee rather than some random member of the public - say, a friend or relative; they're JUST as important to me as some .gov worker.

[tokugawa]

I feel the same way about laws that give special protection to government employees - for example "special" laws that include extra penalties if someone assaults a government employee rather than some random member of the public - say, a friend or relative; they're JUST as important to me as some .gov worker.

  Yes. exactly. Also "hate crime" enhanced penalties for members of "special classes" of citizens. Same idea ." Some animals are more equal than others", as Mr.Orwell put it.

[HeroHog]

Jerry Brown can impart a vacuum on it!

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/blog/burn-bulletbutton-inventor-owns-governor-jerry-brown-already-has-a-new-gun-control-compliant-device-in-production/

[Angel Eyes]

Jerry Brown can impart a vacuum on it!

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/blog/burn-bulletbutton-inventor-owns-governor-jerry-brown-already-has-a-new-gun-control-compliant-device-in-production/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XedaFH6pC1o

The video was uploaded the same day Brown signed the bill outlawing the bullet button.

Gotta hand it to Darin Prince.  He's a clever guy.

[Ben]

Gotta hand it to Darin Prince.  He's a clever guy.

He certainly is.

Though in fairness, a baboon could outsmart the CA legislature. 

[HeroHog]

The best part? The new way is easier than using a tool to do it!

[Angel Eyes]