Author Topic: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?  (Read 5200 times)

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,246
Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« on: December 08, 2016, 10:52:16 AM »
That smoke detectors have a recommended expiration date of 10 years from manufacturing was news to me this AM, about 0530 to be exact. I was just getting up when the one in the bedroom decided to misbehave, not occasional chirping but full on alarm. A quick search found no smoke so I swapped batteries to no avail. I then blew out at least tens years worth of dust, another thing I didn't know about and it continued to misbehave. I decided to just pull it out until later but the plug was very stubborn, to the point I wondered if it was a basic push-pull plug. After looking on the utoobs I figured it was just a stubborn plug but that is also where I found out it is recommended to change them every ten years. Who knew, not me!

So it looks like I will change out a few smoke detectors as they are well past the ten year mark and then maybe take one apart and see if there is anything useful inside them.

So consider this a PSA for checking your smoke detectors, they can save your life.

bob

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,570
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 11:00:23 AM »
Yep, had to do the same thing when my youngest's started chirping once randomly.

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,745
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 11:09:24 AM »
I've been pulling them in my stinking sister's house for the last year +. They are hardwired with 9v battery backup. When you replace the battery, they keep on chirping, so I just disconnect them, leave them up so there's not a hole in the ceiling* and put one of those mini detectors from Costco with the ten year battery next to them. As far as I'm concerned, all new construction should just have battery detectors, not hardwired ones. I'm sure there's some regulation against that though.


*She has like 12 detectors in her house. It's ridiculous. I don't know if it's a state of CA thing, but there seem to be way more than there need to be. In one case there's only maybe 12' between the one in her kitchen and her dining area, which is one big open space, then another 15' between the dining area and living room, which is also mostly open.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,246
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 01:20:02 PM »
Quote
As far as I'm concerned, all new construction should just have battery detectors, not hardwired ones. I'm sure there's some regulation against that though.

Probably some sort of code because the hard wired ones are usually interconnected. That way if one goes off the other ones in the vicinity (or maybe all of them) also start alarming. Another little tidbit I found out this morning as I was trying to figure out which of the 4 was actually making the noise. Getting battery only ones to interconnect would probably require items that would make the cost of them prohibitive to many people, you know, the same ones who never replace the batteries and just remove them(usually found on post fire investigation) :( .

bob

2nd_to_one

  • New Member
  • Posts: 20
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 01:35:24 PM »
I just recently had to do the same thing with the 7 units in my house for the same reason.  A quick search on Amazon netted me a multi-pack discount price on the exact model that was installed so change out didn't require playing with the wiring beyond unplugging the old and plugging in the new.  It is probably worth a look to see if you can find yours there.

Steve

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2016, 01:38:00 PM »

So it looks like I will change out a few smoke detectors as they are well past the ten year mark and then maybe take one apart and see if there is anything useful inside them.


The Radioactive Boy Scout
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 02:12:52 PM »
Yep, I prefer batt-only smoke detectors and use them pretty liberally.  Every room (outside the bathrooms), every hall, inside kid's closet with breaker box, in HVAC/water heater closet, plus garage.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 02:13:21 PM »
So it looks like I will change out a few smoke detectors as they are well past the ten year mark and then maybe take one apart and see if there is anything useful inside them.

I wouldn't.

As scout linked, most smoke detectors have a radioactive source in them.  That's why they have a 10 year life, the source degrades, but will still be there.

It's not a radiological hazard unless you're a boy scout who disassembles hundreds of them and piles all the material together to the point it achieves criticality.

Ionization types are better at detecting 'fast' fire smoke, photoelectrics are better at 'slow' smoke.  Ionization have the radioactive source.  That said, even photoelectrics are on a 10 year replacement schedule, because stuff does wear out, you know?

Unisaw

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,415
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 03:41:28 PM »
I had no idea.  Thanks for the heads up.
Well, if you have the sudden urge to lick your balls you'll know you got the veterinary version... K Frame

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re:
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 03:56:34 PM »
If you end up messing with the wiring consider adding one in crawl space and attic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2016, 04:58:34 PM »
They expire much quicker if they're "reset" with a pickaxe at 3AM after going off for no reason.

That was more than a decade ago, and I'm still wondering if the landlord has ever noticed that I just hot glued a $5 battery powered one over the socket.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2016, 05:12:38 PM »
Probably some sort of code because the hard wired ones are usually interconnected. That way if one goes off the other ones in the vicinity (or maybe all of them) also start alarming.

Correct -- all of them.

The International Residential Code (which all states use for one- and two-family houses, and townhouses) does specify the locations where smoke detectors must be located.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Nick1911

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,486
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2016, 05:33:52 PM »
Correct -- all of them.

The International Residential Code (which all states use for one- and two-family houses, and townhouses) does specify the locations where smoke detectors must be located.

Specifically:

R314.3 Location. Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:
1. In each sleeping room.
2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.
3. On each additional story of the dwelling, including basements and habitable attics but not including crawl spaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm
installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level.

Disclaimer; 2012 version of the IRC, and your municipality may have adopted amendments that alter or omit this section.

230RN

  • It's like swimming to shore in an ebb tide.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,826
  • Pushing back. Help me out, here...
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 05:42:32 PM »
Got a hard-wired one in here (apartment), been there for >,>10 years.  Don't want to "test" it: noise.

Want to get a couple more new battery activated ones for around the apartment, haven't actually started looking for them.  Considering the decay of the radioactive substance, is there any manufacturing date on the package for new ones? Educate me.

I know on my Kidde carbon monoxide detector, there is a mfr's date and a warning in the instructions to replace it after X years, forgot how many.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:56:16 PM by 230RN »

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,246
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 05:49:34 PM »
I saw the manufacturing date on the back of my Kidde smoke alarm once I took it down. It was 2003 so I figured they are all the same. I just ordered a 4 pack from Amazon to replace them.

bob

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2016, 05:51:13 PM »
Specifically:

R314.3 Location. Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:
1. In each sleeping room.
2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.
3. On each additional story of the dwelling, including basements and habitable attics but not including crawl spaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm
installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level.

Disclaimer; 2012 version of the IRC, and your municipality may have adopted amendments that alter or omit this section.
Not often you find me saying code is too weak but if you get a fire inside a wall the attic can fill with smoke long before the living spaces. After doing fire restorations I got right nervous


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 06:17:07 PM »
Not often you find me saying code is too weak but if you get a fire inside a wall the attic can fill with smoke long before the living spaces. After doing fire restorations I got right nervous


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hmm, maybe I need to put a smoke detector in the attic.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,791
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2016, 07:57:45 PM »
I want to buy interconnected ones to upgrade my house, but  all the battery one's I can find are not interconnected. :/
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2016, 08:12:10 PM »
Not often you find me saying code is too weak but if you get a fire inside a wall the attic can fill with smoke long before the living spaces. After doing fire restorations I got right nervous

Too true.

Building codes are a minimum standard. Anyone can exceed the code, and no sane building inspector will ever complain about going beyond the minimum. However, builders are in business to make money, so for them the code minimum becomes the de facto maximum.

I know an engineer who once described sitting in on a contractor's sales pitch to the owner of a small business that was looking to have a new building built. The contractor was proclaiming how great his workmanship was.

"We even meet all the requirements of the building code," he said.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,199
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2016, 08:13:47 PM »
Hmm, maybe I need to put a smoke detector in the attic.

A smoke detector in an attic may not be heard. It's not a good location for an individual, battery-powered unit. It should be interconnected so if it goes off it will trigger alarms in the main part of the house.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2016, 10:21:50 PM »
Hmm, maybe I need to put a smoke detector in the attic.
I never woulda thought of it till I talked to an old fire investigator



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,274
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,791
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2016, 11:22:32 PM »
A smoke detector in an attic may not be heard. It's not a good location for an individual, battery-powered unit. It should be interconnected so if it goes off it will trigger alarms in the main part of the house.

hence my earlier post. The world needs good battery-powered, interconnected smoke alarms. I would instantly put one in my attic and garage as well as updating all the existing ones in my house. But I can't find any battery powered ones that are interconnected. 
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2016, 12:00:15 AM »
hence my earlier post. The world needs good battery-powered, interconnected smoke alarms. I would instantly put one in my attic and garage as well as updating all the existing ones in my house. But I can't find any battery powered ones that are interconnected.  

Found some!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-Battery-Operated-Wireless-Inter-Connectable-Smoke-Alarm-RF-SM-DC/100655041
https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-SA501CN2-Interconnected-Wireless/dp/B000FBQC1K
https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-RF-SM-DC-Wireless-Interconnect-Battery-Operated/dp/B00PC5S37K

Expect to pay $30-40 per.

In the attic I think I'd want a wired alarm just because the battery is less likely to be replaced on schedule.  A wired alarm with a lithium battery in it shouldn't need the battery replaced until you're replacing all the alarms again.

If you have a wired system that you're expanding, you'll need an interconnect.
https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-RF-SM-AC-Hardwire-Wireless-Interconnect/dp/B00PC5S5UK/

$55

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,009
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Hard Wired Smoke Detectors Expire... who knew?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2016, 05:56:22 AM »
I was looking at a couple of my smoke detectors the other night and realized that they are well in excess of 20 years old.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.