You think your HOA is bad?

[MechAg94]

Man, what luck!  

I'd be thrilled if someone offered to gift me some free concrete blocks by abandoning them on my personal property.  I'd spray paint them pretty florescent colors and put them right in my front yard as a work of modern art.

I was thinking someone might want to put in a deck.  Those might make good supports to go underneath.

This is a silly and dangerous overreaction by the HOA, but I wonder how much their annual dues are?  

In the video, those look like Townhomes that are all connected.  I owned one some years back and the dues were $200 per month.  It paid for maintenance of all the common grounds, insurance, and maintenance of all exterior parts of the house.  It actually covered quite a bit.  However, it adds a chunk to the monthly mortgage. 

[HankB]

Blocking lawful vehicle ingress/egress on private property? Wouldn't the criminal laws against unlawful restraint come into play here?

Anyway . . . I'm sure you could rent a jackhammer somewhere . . .

[T.O.M.]

In wife's old job, she did a lot of insurance work with  HOA board members, and the stories she told were just amazing.  One HOA didn't approve of the color a homeowner used for his house trim, so when he went on vacation, some of the HOA board members repainted it.  (Homeowner pursued criminal charges for Trespass and Vandalism, and won).  One HOA was having a dispute with a homeowner who used a charcoal grill, and the president living next door didn't like the smell.  So, after a secret board meeting, they cut the lock off the guy's fence and confiscated the grill as a public nuisance.   Yeah, he sued the members and won.

Glad we don't have an HOA.

[Hawkmoon]

This is why I don't ever want to live in a "community" that has an HOA. Unfortunately, it seems in many parts of the country new developments all have HOAs, and finding anything worth living in that doesn't can be difficult.

[Ned Hamford]

I'd have a lawyer on them so fast it wouldn't be funny.

Folks that are behind on their HOA fees, typically don't have the money to hire a lawyer.  And if the local police aren't willing to pursue entirely appropriate charges, you've got that perfect storm for petty tyrants.  Things like this can go on for ages.  Hurrah for the local media picking up the incident.  Our 2nd to last local paper just shut down and the remaining one is really more a glorified newsletter.  As ever, people are people, the amount of injustice you are exposed to is highly location and identity based. 

[KD5NRH]

So, after a secret board meeting, they cut the lock off the guy's fence and confiscated the grill as a public nuisance.

Oh, that could get ugly in a hurry in the wrong places.

[BlueStarLizzard]

This is why I don't ever want to live in a "community" that has an HOA. Unfortunately, it seems in many parts of the country new developments all have HOAs, and finding anything worth living in that doesn't can be difficult.

and this is why I shall always choose to live in a location where the neighbors can't even see my house, much less dictate to me what the hell it should look like.
It's also nice, because I don't have to worry about people seeing things they shouldn't if they glance in my windows. 

[KD5NRH]

It's also nice, because I don't have to worry about people seeing things they shouldn't if they glance in my windows.

I just tend to make that a regrettable experience so they won't do it twice.

No, I don't have furry pajama pants.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I just tend to make that a regrettable experience so they won't do it twice.

No, I don't have furry pajama pants.

I didn't need to know about your lack of furry pajama pants. 

[KD5NRH]

I didn't need to know about your lack of furry pajama pants.

Then stop peeking in my windows.

[HankB]

I just tend to make that a regrettable experience so they won't do it twice.

No, I don't have furry pajama pants.

Furry chaps might make the experience even more regrettable . . . some things, once seen, can't be unseen again. 

[K Frame]

Folks that are behind on their HOA fees, typically don't have the money to hire a lawyer.  And if the local police aren't willing to pursue entirely appropriate charges, you've got that perfect storm for petty tyrants.  Things like this can go on for ages.  Hurrah for the local media picking up the incident.  Our 2nd to last local paper just shut down and the remaining one is really more a glorified newsletter.  As ever, people are people, the amount of injustice you are exposed to is highly location and identity based. 

Don't kid yourself. In the many years I was on the board in my community, we only had one case where a homeowner had true financial issues. All of the others were owners who didn't feel like paying their bills.

The WORST ones were the absentee slumlord owners.

We finally got tired of taking the really bad ones to court and getting a fraction of what was owned to us, so we automated the process. If someone falls behind two quarters (currently about $460) and hasn't responded to the board's communications, at the beginning of the third quarter several things happen.

1. The HOA's attorneys file a lien against the property, to include their legal fees. The lien, and legal fees, are updated each quarter.

2. The HOA starts steps to deny the owner (or the tenants) access to a number of community services, the biggest one being use of parking spaces. The spaces are HOA property, NOT the owner's property. We don't block them in, we just make it very clear that the spaces are off limits and any cars parked in those spaces will be towed at the owner's expense.

That sucks if you're a tenant, but we worked with one tenant a few years who ended up filing suit against the property owner and placing his monthly rent into an escrow.

The tenant refused to pay his rent until he could park in the community again, and the only way we'd clear that was if the owner paid the back HOA dues and legal charges in full.

[MechAg94]

From everything I have heard, the biggest problem with HOA's is no one goes to the meetings and participates.  They end up leaving it to the busy bodies who make their life hell. 

[K Frame]

From everything I have heard, the biggest problem with HOA's is no one goes to the meetings and participates.  They end up leaving it to the busy bodies who make their life hell. 

Winner winner chicken dinner.

That's often how it shakes out.

In the years that I was on the board we went through hell trying to get people to serve.

People showed up at the annual meeting, but 99% of the time it was to go into a diatribe about how we weren't taking care of X problem that was causing them Y angst.

Had they brought their concerns to the attention of a board member before? Why of course they didn't, because they're, you know, busy, and all board members have to do is constantly stroll around the community, interacting with nature and protecting property values.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times we had that happen.

It got to the point where if someone was bringing a problem that they were festering about they were put on notice that they were volunteering to head a committee to investigate a solution.

"Well I don't want to do that! It's your job!"

No, you idiot, it's not my "job," I HAVE a job. This is a volunteer position.

I finally resigned in large part over people in the community screeching like mad but not being willing to life a finger, only flap their jaws.

[wmenorr67]

If you have a problem but no idea of a solution you're just whining.

[Mannlicher]

I have a very hard time believing that an HOA contract covers this sort of thing, or that an HOA would survive the liability lawsuits should their enthusiastic pursuit of overdue fees delay prompt medical treatment or something.

  since neither of us knows anything about what is in the HOA covenants this fellow signed, it's pretty useless to argue with me about it.   lol

The story did not give much in the way of facts, as usual.  I still say people give away all sorts of 'rights' when they sign on the dotted line.  I am sure that varies from HOA to HOA.

[Hawkmoon]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

That's often how it shakes out.

In the years that I was on the board we went through hell trying to get people to serve.

People showed up at the annual meeting, but 99% of the time it was to go into a diatribe about how we weren't taking care of X problem that was causing them Y angst.

Had they brought their concerns to the attention of a board member before? Why of course they didn't, because they're, you know, busy, and all board members have to do is constantly stroll around the community, interacting with nature and protecting property values.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times we had that happen.

It got to the point where if someone was bringing a problem that they were festering about they were put on notice that they were volunteering to head a committee to investigate a solution.

"Well I don't want to do that! It's your job!"

No, you idiot, it's not my "job," I HAVE a job. This is a volunteer position.

I finally resigned in large part over people in the community screeching like mad but not being willing to life a finger, only flap their jaws.

Sounds familiar. I was on the board of the condominium I lived in during the 1980s and that was the story, exactly. People never wanted to DO anything, but they were always happy to complain.

Last year, I was approached by the management company of a small but wealthy condominium about doing a report on the condition of the elevated decks. Mind you, they had already had verbal reports from two or three builders, but they wanted something from a licensed engineer or architect. Well, that's me ... I've done a number of problem investigations for this property management company over the years, so they called me. I spent a morning walking the property with a president of the board, he went through the level of detail they wanted in the report, and I put together a number that I thought was very reasonable.

They didn't agree. Apparently they thought architects and engineers work for free. So ... may their decks all collapse and they get sued into receivership.

[K Frame]

"They didn't agree. Apparently they thought architects and engineers work for free. So ... may their decks all collapse and they get sued into receivership."

Heh. Yeah, my Dad was a civil engineer and would be called in to consult on various matters like that. Often people would flip when he'd give them his estimate. I just about fell over laughing one time when someone asked him why his estimate was so high -- If you want it cheaper, I'm sure you can find a new engineering graduate with none of my experience or practical knowledge, but I'm sure his theoretical knowledge will be rock solid.

My Dad did some consultation work, and testified, on behalf of some people who were injured pretty badly when a deck collapsed on a home in a fairly new subdivision. What he found was absolutely horrifying -- ledger boards nailed to the house with 10 penny sinkers with no bolts, substandard fasteners, quite a few missing fasteners, required bracing wasn't in place, just a litany of problems.

Every deck in the community was condemned. The subdivision owner made a claim against the developer's bond, and that spawned a bunch of side litigation. Not 100% sure, but I think one of the county building inspectors lost his job because he was essentially pencil whipping the inspection reports. IIRC they tried to determine if he was being bribed, but I don't think that went anywhere.

The builder lost his bond, his insurance company paid out a couple of million, and the company went TU.

[KD5NRH]

My Dad did some consultation work, and testified, on behalf of some people who were injured pretty badly when a deck collapsed on a home in a fairly new subdivision. What he found was absolutely horrifyingdirt common -- ledger boards nailed to the house with 10 penny sinkers with no bolts, substandard fasteners, quite a few missing fasteners, required bracing wasn't in place, just a litany of problems.

FIFY

Can't tell you how many times the difference between an engineered drawing and the final result has been blindingly obvious in just the stuff I've looked at.  Spec'd 1/4" steel tubing becomes 14ga, tubing becomes angle, angle becomes 14ga base angle, 3/16" 2x8 becomes 14ga 2x6, (or 6" C purlin, or stamped 2x6 studs) concrete footers shrink dramatically, tek screws instead of through bolts or welds, etc.

And of course, the builder still wants to blame the engineer for not making it clear enough that they shouldn't make those "normal" substitutions.

[K Frame]

FIFY

Can't tell you how many times the difference between an engineered drawing and the final result has been blindingly obvious in just the stuff I've looked at.  Spec'd 1/4" steel tubing becomes 14ga, tubing becomes angle, angle becomes 14ga base angle, 3/16" 2x8 becomes 14ga 2x6, (or 6" C purlin, or stamped 2x6 studs) concrete footers shrink dramatically, tek screws instead of through bolts or welds, etc.

And of course, the builder still wants to blame the engineer for not making it clear enough that they shouldn't make those "normal" substitutions.

My Father was a civil engineer for over 50 years. What I described was, until the day he died, by FAR the worst examples of malfeasance he ever saw. He routinely recounted it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Back during the building boom if the inspector knew you and your work they did " drive by " inspections. Possibly the worst type were in the early phases of excavation and pouring footers and slabs. Those really haunt you if done poorly.
There are places where on drainfields they will let you dig one line lay the pipe and fill it in with the dirt from next trench . It saves time and keeps mess down if it's muddy. . They inspect the layout and first trench and then come back for a quick one before you cover distribution boxes. And around here you can bypass county inspectors with certain " certified" engineers. You pay them and they sign off.


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[Sindawe]

I finally resigned in large part over people in the community screeching like mad but not being willing to life a finger, only flap their jaws.

Pretty much why I bailed on my HOA board after about six years.  Obnoxious know it all owners who could not be bothered to attend the mouthy meeting but raised holy-hell when things did not go exactly their way at the annuals.  The last annual meeting I was a board member at one of my neighbors would constantly interrupt me when I was speaking.  After two polite reminders to "Please do not interrupt other when they are speaking" (something I can NOT stand) I very pointedly told her she was being rude and to NOT interrupt me again, she would have her turn to speak.  Her husband then wanted to throw down with me over it.  They stormed off in snit when asked by the rest of the board to sit down and wait their turn.

HOA are like governments (since in effect they are the level of representative government closest to those who live in one), they must be closely watched and their powers sharply limited.  Ours (I still live in the townhome community) is fairly innocuous to date.  Keep the grass cut, the buildings painted and do occasional improvements like fencing the perimeter or putting individual water meters on the units after one building was going through 6x the water the other buildings were using.