Author Topic: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .  (Read 10000 times)

HankB

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Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« on: January 08, 2017, 10:46:10 AM »
. . . and has attracted media notice.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gun-silencers-are-hard-to-buy-donald-trump-jr-and-silencer-makers-want-to-change-that/ar-BBy11ho?li=BBnb4R7&ocid=U270DHP

The article is a little more "balanced" than usual, but mentions Donald Trump Jr. supports removing silencers/suppressors from NFA requirements and says that even when they reduce the sound of a gunshot from a dangerous to hearing 165 dB to 135 dB, guns are still as loud as a jackhammer.

Of course, they also cite someone bragging on YouTube that high powered guns will sound like pellet guns, and then demonstrating with a .22 rifle.  :facepalm:

(Note that the microphones used for recordings on YouTube and the recordings themselves do NOT repeat NOT come anywhere near reproducing actual gunshot results, with or without suppressors.)
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 10:50:57 AM »
Of course, they also cite someone bragging on YouTube that high powered guns will sound like pellet guns, and then demonstrating with a .22 rifle.

Maybe it's a high-powered .22?
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MikeB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2017, 11:02:10 AM »
. . . and has attracted media notice.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gun-silencers-are-hard-to-buy-donald-trump-jr-and-silencer-makers-want-to-change-that/ar-BBy11ho?li=BBnb4R7&ocid=U270DHP

The article is a little more "balanced" than usual, but mentions Donald Trump Jr. supports removing silencers/suppressors from NFA requirements and says that even when they reduce the sound of a gunshot from a dangerous to hearing 165 dB to 135 dB, guns are still as loud as a jackhammer.

Of course, they also cite someone bragging on YouTube that high powered guns will sound like pellet guns, and then demonstrating with a .22 rifle.  :facepalm:

(Note that the microphones used for recordings on YouTube and the recordings themselves do NOT repeat NOT come anywhere near reproducing actual gunshot results, with or without suppressors.)

When I shoot .22lr with a few different suppressors I own it does sound like a pellet gun. So does the Uzi with the suppressor, in Full Auto it sounds like an old fashioned telex machine. That doesn't mean they are silent and that is with generally subsonic ballistics. You can hear a pellet gun or old fashioned type writer/telex can be heard from a distance. That said it certainly isn't silent like in the movies. Even .223 sounds like pellet gun except for the sonic crack; but higher powered pellet guns can have the sonic crack too. No reason to try and hide anything though.

HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 11:21:19 AM »
. . .  Even .223 sounds like pellet gun except for the sonic crack; but higher powered pellet guns can have the sonic crack too.  . . .
Don't own a suppressor myself, but some time ago I was in a shoot where a guy was using a suppressed .223; with subsonics it was rather quiet, but with regular .223 ammo it was appreciably louder than a common pellet gun like an RWS M48 - or even an unsuppressed .22lr.

It was pretty funny - for everyone else! - when he entered a stage (shooting subsonics) without hearing protection and had a malfunction . . . so he transitioned to his sidearm, a Glock in .357 SIG.   :O
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Ben

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 11:25:00 AM »
Great news.

I do suspect there is going to be a metric boatload of misinformation spread by the MSM and other idiots. Look for videos from Katie Couric featuring clips from all the movies where .45acps go "pfft". I'll be surprised if any MSM outlet (except maybe Fox) actually goes to a range and doesn't suppress (ha ha) the actual sounds.
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MikeB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 12:01:38 PM »
Don't own a suppressor myself, but some time ago I was in a shoot where a guy was using a suppressed .223; with subsonics it was rather quiet, but with regular .223 ammo it was appreciably louder than a common pellet gun like an RWS M48 - or even an unsuppressed .22lr.

It was pretty funny - for everyone else! - when he entered a stage (shooting subsonics) without hearing protection and had a malfunction . . . so he transitioned to his sidearm, a Glock in .357 SIG.   :O

I'm not aware of any subsonic .223 that will cycle a an AR action ... maybe you were not seeing/hearing what you thought you were seeing/hearing? There is a reason .300BLK was invented.

HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2017, 01:30:56 PM »
I'm not aware of any subsonic .223 that will cycle a an AR action ... maybe you were not seeing/hearing what you thought you were seeing/hearing? There is a reason .300BLK was invented.
That's quite possible - I didn't examine his rifle myself, all I know is what he (or maybe someone else at the match?) said. Maybe it was actually a .300 Whisper?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

230RN

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 12:06:11 PM »
That's quite possible - I didn't examine his rifle myself, all I know is what he (or maybe someone else at the match?) said. Maybe it was actually a .300 Whisper?

Or maybe one of a couple of brands of .22LR uppers.  I was thinking oif buying one myself at one point.

MechAg94

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 04:38:11 PM »
I really hope this law gets passed.  I want to get a supressor ordered this year.  I am leary of the long wait times.  At the least, I hope Trump's people can get the BATFE off the stick on background checks.  Maybe bring back the electronic registration. 

If they pass that bill, all my spare change for the next year will be spent on suppressors for every caliber I own. 

I would love to speculate on what the market changes would be if suppressors were no longer NFA items.  Short term, I see them getting scarce due to demand.  Long term, I think they will get pretty cheap and more guns will be designed to add them or have sound suppression built in somehow.
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Scout26

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 05:02:39 PM »
We're trying to make them legal in Illinois...  I don't have much hope given all the other shenanigans in Springfield, especially with the budget.  And I can just hear all the Chicago Policritters HOWLING with righteous indignation given the killbox Chicago has become.


I'll have to ask if this passes at the Federal level, then what happens at the state level??
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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2017, 05:38:46 PM »
I do suspect there is going to be a metric boatload of misinformation spread by the MSM and other idiots. Look for videos from Katie Couric featuring clips from all the movies where .45acps go "pfft". I'll be surprised if any MSM outlet (except maybe Fox) actually goes to a range and doesn't suppress (ha ha) the actual sounds.

Maybe she'll dig up the Rainbow Six game where you shoot out the fluorescent lights with a suppressed 5.7 (pretty much the limit of a 30gr subsonic's tactical usefulness, IMO) and not only do the guys around the corner in the same hallway not hear the shot, they don't hear the glass crashing down from 10-12 feet up.  Suppressors even silence the targets, obviously.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2017, 05:50:29 PM »
I really hope this law gets passed.  I want to get a supressor ordered this year.  I am leary of the long wait times.  At the least, I hope Trump's people can get the BATFE off the stick on background checks.  Maybe bring back the electronic registration. 

If they pass that bill, all my spare change for the next year will be spent on suppressors for every caliber I own. 

I would love to speculate on what the market changes would be if suppressors were no longer NFA items.  Short term, I see them getting scarce due to demand.  Long term, I think they will get pretty cheap and more guns will be designed to add them or have sound suppression built in somehow.

I'm all but certain they'd come down in price. I made my homemade Form 1 suppressor with a length of aluminum tubing, threaded cap, a threaded adapter for the barrel, and some freeze plugs. It cost less than $100 to buy those parts.

Scout26

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 05:55:58 PM »
I'm all but certain they'd come down in price. I made my homemade Form 1 suppressor with a length of aluminum tubing, threaded cap, a threaded adapter for the barrel, and some freeze plugs. It cost less than $100 to buy those parts.

Since I'm not all that up to speed on the various intrincatcies of the various BATFEIO forms since, all the fun toys are banned here in Illinois.  You can go to the local hardware store and buy all the parts you need, build your own, and just tell the BATFEIO, "Here's my Form 1 (and some cash, I'm sure)."  I nao haz Supressor !!"  And it's all good?

Oh, do educate me Obi-Wan as to how this black magic is possible...
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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bedlamite

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2017, 06:16:19 PM »
Since I'm not all that up to speed on the various intrincatcies of the various BATFEIO forms since, all the fun toys are banned here in Illinois.  You can go to the local hardware store and buy all the parts you need, build your own, and just tell the BATFEIO, "Here's my Form 1 (and some cash, I'm sure)."  I nao haz Supressor !!"  And it's all good?

Oh, do educate me Obi-Wan as to how this black magic is possible...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/09/build-silencer-part-1/

If the HPA passes, I'll be ordering some stainless tubing ...
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charby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2017, 06:54:33 PM »
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/09/build-silencer-part-1/

If the HPA passes, I'll be ordering some stainless tubing ...

I'll be buying a tig welder and building all kinds of stuff.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2017, 07:25:01 PM »
If the HPA passes, my next purchase will be a Silencerco Hybrid.  Next up will be to send my 35Whelen barrel off to be threaded.  I'll use the Hybrid on my AR, my 308 bolt rifle, and the 35Whelen single-shot. :)

Chris

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2017, 07:38:06 PM »
If the HPA passes, my next purchase will be a Silencerco Hybrid.  Next up will be to send my 35Whelen barrel off to be threaded.  I'll use the Hybrid on my AR, my 308 bolt rifle, and the 35Whelen single-shot. :)

Chris

If it passes, I'll be at the gun store the day it becomes law to buy one of each.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2017, 08:59:38 PM »
If it passes, I'll be at the gun store the day it becomes law to buy one of each.

I'd consider that too, but the hybrid is the only one that will work on my 35Whelen.  If SilencerCo's numbers are to be believed, it matches the performance of dedicated cans for each of the applicable guns and is roughly the same size.  There would be no benefit to having dedicated cans.

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 09:13:18 PM »
Since I'm not all that up to speed on the various intrincatcies of the various BATFEIO forms since, all the fun toys are banned here in Illinois.  You can go to the local hardware store and buy all the parts you need, build your own, and just tell the BATFEIO, "Here's my Form 1 (and some cash, I'm sure)."  I nao haz Supressor !!"  And it's all good?

Oh, do educate me Obi-Wan as to how this black magic is possible...

You have to file the Form 1 (Application To Make And Register A Firearm), pay your $200, then wait six months for the approved form. Then you can go to the hardware store. Or you can just look up "solvent trap" and find a whole bunch of almost-ready-to-assemble suppressors for $100 to $250. I think the weak point of all of them is the baffles. None of them have the baffle designs that have been shown to be most effective.

Still, a 25 or so db reduction using freeze plugs is pretty good.

HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 09:36:41 PM »
I've been toying with the idea of making a Form 1 suppressor myself - I have a mini-lathe - but haven't wanted to do the "keep out of jail" paperwork, so I haven't done anything.

That will change quickly if/when the HPA passes.
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bedlamite

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 09:43:31 PM »
I've been toying with the idea of making a Form 1 suppressor myself - I have a mini-lathe - but haven't wanted to do the "keep out of jail" paperwork, so I haven't done anything.

That will change quickly if/when the HPA passes.

Same here, except it's a not-so-mini Clausing, and a MIG welder with an Argon tank :)
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roo_ster

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 10:52:55 PM »
I will also spluge for a can or three of this comes to pass.
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sumpnz

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 12:25:51 AM »
I would definitely put a can on my elk rifle.  Given how we hunt (via paddle craft) the extra weight is a non-issue.  For deer hunting though that would be a tougher call.  I haven't gone totally back country just yet, but it's far enough that I'd rather not add the weight, plus the added length would be undesirable given what I routinely hike through there. 

The range only guns would most definitely get cans.  And I'd finally get a decent HD rifle, and that would without question get a can.  Rifles outdoors are loud enough.  Indoors, and they'd be far worse.  If I'm ever in an HD situation I'd like to be able to still hear when the cops finally show up minutes/hours later.

freakazoid

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 03:23:33 AM »
If they were to be removed from the NFA, I wonder if that would have the benefit of speeding up processing times for getting your stamp for the others.
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HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 10:41:11 AM »
Same here, except it's a not-so-mini Clausing, and a MIG welder with an Argon tank :)
I had access to a Clausing at work - even though I've "tweaked" my mini-lathe quite a bit and upped the precision so it does quite decently within its size limitations, it simply doesn't have the features, rigidity, or power of a real machine.

And the closest thing I have to a MIG welder is a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch.  :rofl:

I suspect with so many garage-shop mechanics trying out designs for new cans, we'll see an advance in the state of the art . . . and I think patent attorneys for commercial can manufacturers will be going prematurely gray.

You have to file the Form 1 (Application To Make And Register A Firearm), pay your $200, then wait six months for the approved form. Then you can go to the hardware store. Or you can just look up "solvent trap" and find a whole bunch of almost-ready-to-assemble suppressors for $100 to $250. I think the weak point of all of them is the baffles. None of them have the baffle designs that have been shown to be most effective.

Still, a 25 or so db reduction using freeze plugs is pretty good.
The available Form 1 "kit" baffles seem to be improving - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHAZAZ8b09M
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain