Author Topic: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .  (Read 10002 times)

TechMan

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 12:22:01 PM »
Since I'm not all that up to speed on the various intrincatcies of the various BATFEIO forms since, all the fun toys are banned here in Illinois.  You can go to the local hardware store and buy all the parts you need, build your own, and just tell the BATFEIO, "Here's my Form 1 (and some cash, I'm sure)."  I nao haz Supressor !!"  And it's all good?

Oh, do educate me Obi-Wan as to how this black magic is possible...

You could do this as well: http://www.2acheck.com/oil-filter-suppressor/
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
Quote
The available Form 1 "kit" baffles seem to be improving - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHAZAZ8b09M

The Roninpro baffles are better than most solvent traps. From what I've read, K baffles are the most effective for rimfire suppressors. The Roninpro solvent traps are also now about $250, which would get you into an AAC Element 2, Xcaliber Genesis, or any number of suppressors that have as much as 41db of reduction.

charby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 02:02:08 PM »
If they were to be removed from the NFA, I wonder if that would have the benefit of speeding up processing times for getting your stamp for the others.

Why would you need a stamp if it is not NFA anymore?

You don't need a tax stamp for your average over the counter firearm.
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TechMan

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 02:29:10 PM »
Why would you need a stamp if it is not NFA anymore?

You don't need a tax stamp for your average over the counter firearm.

I think he means other NFA toys.
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Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

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cordex

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 03:19:45 PM »
I suspect with so many garage-shop mechanics trying out designs for new cans, we'll see an advance in the state of the art . . .
Over the past fifteen years suppressor design has matured a lot.  A lot of really smart, talented engineers have gotten into the game and done some pretty cool things.  I doubt Cletus or Jesse James are going to bring a whole lot of useful innovation to the table.

In the commercial market, the benefits we would see most would be relating to decreased weight and cost.  Think disposable, or close to it.

I've been watching a guy from New Zealand who has done some pretty cool things with selective laser melting to manufacture cans.  Very lightweight - under 5 ounces for a centerfire pistol can complete with booster, and under 6 ounces for a 5.56mm can.  My guess is we'd see some very lightweight, fully sealed $300-$400 centerfire suppressors made with that kind of technology, tons of $50-$150 .22LR suppressors made from all kinds of junk, and a whole lot of high-end suppressor manufacturers either out of business entirely or selling their logo to be put on cheap junk manufactured by Remchester.

HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 04:59:00 PM »
Over the past fifteen years suppressor design has matured a lot.  A lot of really smart, talented engineers have gotten into the game and done some pretty cool things.  I doubt Cletus or Jesse James are going to bring a whole lot of useful innovation to the table.
But if there are 10,000 Cletuses (Cleti?) mucking about, maybe one of them will eventually hit on something useful - after all, even a blind squirrel can sometimes find an acorn.

And not every potential home experimenter is a toothless doofus - I've no doubt that there are some smart folks who just haven't applied their innovative ideas thanks to the NFA.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 05:25:25 PM »
You could do this as well: http://www.2acheck.com/oil-filter-suppressor/
Those work surprisingly well on small caliber. Especially with water

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De Selby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 05:34:13 PM »
The real game changer will be not suppressor but integrally suppressed firearms.  I'm thinking of the latest Russian designs.  Absent restrictions you'd think guns would go the way if cars and be silenced as part of the whole design.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Monkeyleg

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 06:15:03 PM »
Ruger already has an integrally suppressed .22 pistol. Don't know how it sells.

Removing the restrictions may give incentive to finding a way to make suppressors smaller while still reducing the sound pressure the same amount. Right now I don't think there's enough sales to justify the R&D.

HankB

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2017, 06:31:42 PM »
Ruger already has an integrally suppressed .22 pistol. Don't know how it sells.

Removing the restrictions may give incentive to finding a way to make suppressors smaller while still reducing the sound pressure the same amount. Right now I don't think there's enough sales to justify the R&D.
Suppressed .22 pistols go back to the OSS in WWII - more "recently" Francis Gary Powers, the (in)famous U-2 pilot, was allegedly issued a suppressed Hi-Standard .22.

The barrel had been drilled with many holes, wrapped with screen, and a tube placed over the wrappings.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2011/9/21/arms-tech-limited-oss-hi-standard/
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

cordex

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 09:13:00 PM »
But if there are 10,000 Cletuses (Cleti?) mucking about, maybe one of them will eventually hit on something useful - after all, even a blind squirrel can sometimes find an acorn.

And not every potential home experimenter is a toothless doofus - I've no doubt that there are some smart folks who just haven't applied their innovative ideas thanks to the NFA.
I'm not saying hobbyists won't do cool stuff, just that things have progressed an awful lot recently and there are practical limits to significant advances that can be made with hobby-level equipment.

Also, while there are absolutely smart people who haven't tried their hand at suppressor design because of the NFA, it isn't as though the barriers to doing so are insurmountable now. Privately built Form 1 cans are no harder to get permission to build than to buy a commercial can.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 04:11:21 PM »

Washington Post reporter refuses to admit that he was wrong about calling the .22 LR "high-powered." 

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/11/washington-post-deliberately-misrepresented-youtube-video-showcasing-rifle-suppressor/
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 06:37:18 PM »
Makes you wonder about those high-power pellet guns.

MechAg94

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 09:40:27 PM »
Makes you wonder about those high-power pellet guns.
I have heard some of those pellet guns are pretty dang loud, especially the high velocity models.

..But that isn't the point.   =D
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MechAg94

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2017, 03:40:52 PM »
The real game changer will be not suppressor but integrally suppressed firearms.  I'm thinking of the latest Russian designs.  Absent restrictions you'd think guns would go the way if cars and be silenced as part of the whole design.
This is what I was thinking about.  If suppressors were unrestricted, I think we would eventually get to the point that even the FUDD hunters would want some suppression to avoid spooking game.  I would be curious what the major manufacturers would start doing to their standard guns to accommodate that.  Maybe threaded barrels on pistols with the threads recessed into the frame so you don't have the extra length hanging out.

A lot of integrally suppressed guns I see are actually short barrels with a can set over them to look like part of the whole gun (10/22).  Are there news ways to accomplish the same thing without a big can on the end of the barrel? 

I hadn't considered disposable cans.  That would be interesting if they were cheap.  A permanent flash suppressor mount with disposable cans.  If they were cheap enough, that would be good option.  Might even avoid cleaning.  There would always be people looking for the $1500 titanium model.  I would probably end up with both.
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charby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2017, 04:26:13 PM »
This is what I was thinking about.  If suppressors were unrestricted, I think we would eventually get to the point that even the FUDD hunters would want some suppression to avoid spooking game. 

No, it is about saving your hearing, not spooking game.

The muzzle report from a pellet rifle makes the rabbit in the "herd" I'm not shooting at jump along with the one who died.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2017, 05:11:50 PM »
No, it is about saving your hearing, not spooking game.

The muzzle report from a pellet rifle makes the rabbit in the "herd" I'm not shooting at jump along with the one who died.

During some experimentation with "cat's sneeze" rounds (basically, heavy bullet with a tiny powder charge to make "too much gun" into "not too much gun and quiet too") I hit upon some loads for 7.62x54 that were barely as loud as a hard cough.  I'd think that for small game out close to the edge of the accurate range, you could be thumping bunnies with a 200gr bullet at "hard pitch" velocities without scaring others nearby.

charby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2017, 05:21:03 PM »
During some experimentation with "cat's sneeze" rounds (basically, heavy bullet with a tiny powder charge to make "too much gun" into "not too much gun and quiet too") I hit upon some loads for 7.62x54 that were barely as loud as a hard cough.  I'd think that for small game out close to the edge of the accurate range, you could be thumping bunnies with a 200gr bullet at "hard pitch" velocities without scaring others nearby.

How is that going to work on deer or elk sized game at 200-300 yards?
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MechAg94

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2017, 05:38:33 PM »
No, it is about saving your hearing, not spooking game.

The muzzle report from a pellet rifle makes the rabbit in the "herd" I'm not shooting at jump along with the one who died.
From what I have heard from people who have shot wild pigs with suppressed rifles, the other pigs still scatter when the wounded pig squeals after being shot. 

And I realize it is about saving hearing, but people do stuff for all sorts of reasons.  I can see suppressors becoming the polite thing to do so as not to disturb nearby hunters or nearby game as well as helping the shooter with hearing.  It might take some time for the culture change to sink in. 

I would like to see Marlin and Rossi selling lever guns with threaded barrels. 
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De Selby

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 05:56:35 PM »
This is what I was thinking about.  If suppressors were unrestricted, I think we would eventually get to the point that even the FUDD hunters would want some suppression to avoid spooking game.  I would be curious what the major manufacturers would start doing to their standard guns to accommodate that.  Maybe threaded barrels on pistols with the threads recessed into the frame so you don't have the extra length hanging out.

A lot of integrally suppressed guns I see are actually short barrels with a can set over them to look like part of the whole gun (10/22).  Are there news ways to accomplish the same thing without a big can on the end of the barrel? 

I hadn't considered disposable cans.  That would be interesting if they were cheap.  A permanent flash suppressor mount with disposable cans.  If they were cheap enough, that would be good option.  Might even avoid cleaning.  There would always be people looking for the $1500 titanium model.  I would probably end up with both.

Check out the VSS rifles online
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Ben

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2017, 06:58:00 PM »
Man oh man, there needs to be a ton of education on this subject, including for people labeling themselves "gun enthusiasts". Many of the comments to the article linked below are ridiculous, especially from the people that identify themselves as "competitive shooters" and "former Special Forces".   ;/

Also from the experts at Brady:

Quote
“There’s no evidence of a public health issue associated with hearing loss from gunfire,” Kristin Brown, of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told The Los Angeles Times.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/14/hill-republicans-try-to-ease-purchase-gun-silencers-as-nra-backed-trump-arrives.html
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MechAg94

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2017, 12:36:29 PM »
I guess I didn't go far enough into the comments.  Most of what I saw is the usual stuff to be expected.  As they become more common, at least some of that will go away (not all).
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KD5NRH

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2017, 12:48:20 PM »
How is that going to work on deer or elk sized game at 200-300 yards?

Not my problem; it's hard to find a clean 200yd shot on the family land, and unless something escapes from a game ranch, Texas whitetails are the biggest game out there.  If I have to take down a cow, I'm going with full on .30-06 loads and expanding bullets, preferably with a second shooter to make extra sure it goes down and stays down.  They may look docile and stupid, but 1600+ pounds of annoyed beef is unpredictable and dangerous.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2017, 02:21:51 PM »
They may look docile and stupid, but 1600+ pounds of annoyed beef is unpredictable and dangerous.

But enough about the hosts of The View.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:30:54 AM by fistful »
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T.O.M.

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Re: Hearing Protection Act has a high profile supporter . . .
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2017, 02:45:46 PM »
My wonder, if this passes, is how soon the tech will become accessible enough to drive prices down.  Hate paying as much for a can as I paid for the handgun.  If I do get b bsa ck to hunting, though, I like the idea of using a suppressed rifle.
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