Author Topic: Bankers  (Read 6520 times)

Ron

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Bankers
« on: January 15, 2017, 11:52:27 AM »
So Trump has put former Goldman Sachs people into very powerful positions in his cabinet.

Of course it is possible that there are good international bankers and bad international bankers or is that just me rationalizing away the facts in my face.

What do you think? Is it possible that there are America first, MAGA international bankers?

Or is that just wishful thinking?

Heidi Cruz did a stint at Goldman Sachs and her husband is considered the "conservatives conservative".

   http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/investing/donald-trump-goldman-sachs-steve-mnuchin/
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 11:54:23 AM »
Good thing we didn't get Cruz, right?  =)
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Ron

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 11:55:20 AM »
Good thing we didn't get Cruz, right?  =)

Ha! I was editing to add that in my post as you posted!
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Ben

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 01:40:10 PM »
JMHO, but I don't get too worked up just because there's a Goldman Sachs link in places. It seems almost everyone and their brother and sister in politics and big business has done a stint there, or is connected to someone who has.  

I recognize I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't have all that big of a problem with big banks and Wall Street. The fat cats on Wall Street created opportunities that let a little guy like me retire early. :)
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Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 08:15:13 AM »
I have no beef with the bankers.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 09:09:55 AM »
Shouldn't we hate them for being joooooooos?
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makattak

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 09:38:36 AM »
JMHO, but I don't get too worked up just because there's a Goldman Sachs link in places. It seems almost everyone and their brother and sister in politics and big business has done a stint there, or is connected to someone who has.  

I recognize I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't have all that big of a problem with big banks and Wall Street. The fat cats on Wall Street created opportunities that let a little guy like me retire early. :)

YOU may not, but the enthusiastic Trump backers screamed to high heaven that because Heidi Cruz worked for Goldman Sachs, that was PROOF POSITIVE that Cruz was in the pockets of the big banks.

I'm quite certain this will elicit a shrug and an unadmitted 180.
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Ron

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 09:47:50 AM »
I have no beef with the bankers.

The international banking system seems to be nearly synonymous with the globalism and anti-nationalism that folks are rejecting across the globe.

Goldman Sachs is an American multi-national investment firm; as an institution are they necessarily pro USA?

I suspect if there is a business decision that hurts the USA but helps Goldman Sachs they will hurt the USA every time.

Having "their" people continuing to control our fiscal policy isn't exactly swamp draining.

Or maybe they are a patriotic institution, I really don't know.  
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

charby

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 10:05:10 AM »
Shouldn't we hate them for being joooooooos?

Why?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 10:40:48 AM »
Why?


Because jooooooos! Scary ZIONISTS!!   :O
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »
Goldman Sachs is an American multi-national investment firm; as an institution are they necessarily pro USA?

Unlikely.

Quote
I suspect if there is a business decision that hurts the USA but helps Goldman Sachs they will hurt the USA every time.

Much more likely.

Quote
Having "their" people continuing to control our fiscal policy isn't exactly swamp draining.

QFT
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RevDisk

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2017, 12:27:06 PM »
I have no beef with the bankers.

I do. Substantial. In the past couple of decades, they've managed to privatize gains and socialize loss. Going back to the S&L scandal, when banks have failed, the American people get the bill for hundreds of billions of dollars. At best, you get token arrests and light slaps on the wrist. That's your tax dollars being used for their welfare.

Goldman Sachs has jokingly been called Government Sachs for those decades as well. They put people into the Treasury Department (and the SEC, and other regulatory agencies) and hire Treasury Department (and SEC, et al) officials to work for them. If you need a partisan reason to be angry, they tend to donate more money to Democrats than Republicans.

If I parse you're statement correctly, you're claiming you DO support welfare fraud, giving lots of money to Democrats and making that swamp bigger. Weird, never figured you for being more of a hardcore Democrat than me.  ;)
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MechAg94

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 12:39:31 PM »
I guess you include the SEC in that also. 

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Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 01:56:58 PM »
I do. Substantial. In the past couple of decades, they've managed to privatize gains and socialize loss. Going back to the S&L scandal, when banks have failed, the American people get the bill for hundreds of billions of dollars. At best, you get token arrests and light slaps on the wrist. That's your tax dollars being used for their welfare.

Goldman Sachs has jokingly been called Government Sachs for those decades as well. They put people into the Treasury Department (and the SEC, and other regulatory agencies) and hire Treasury Department (and SEC, et al) officials to work for them. If you need a partisan reason to be angry, they tend to donate more money to Democrats than Republicans.

If I parse you're statement correctly, you're claiming you DO support welfare fraud, giving lots of money to Democrats and making that swamp bigger. Weird, never figured you for being more of a hardcore Democrat than me.  ;)

So, because the bankers used the loopholes laws available to them, you're angry?  The fault that they got bailed out lies with the government, not the bankers.  You want idiots to be responsible for their own actions?  Then make laws that make them responsible.

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DittoHead

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 02:06:21 PM »
The fault that they got bailed out lies with the government, not the bankers.

Except that these are the same people - that's the point. They go back and forth between the two making bad policy in government and then taking advantage of it at the banks.
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makattak

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 02:07:07 PM »
So, because the bankers used the loopholes laws available to them, you're angry?  The fault that they got bailed out lies with the government, not the bankers.  You want idiots to be responsible for their own actions?  Then make laws that make them responsible.

Exactly. They did nothing illegal. They did plenty that is immoral, but since our society has long rejected the idea that morals are a good thing, I don't find it surprising they take every advantage legally available to them.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2017, 02:16:24 PM »
Except that these are the same people - that's the point. They go back and forth between the two making bad policy in government and then taking advantage of it at the banks.

And that will never change.  You call it bad policy, others call it networking. 

Congress will never be free of influence from money or peer pressure.
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RevDisk

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 02:31:01 PM »
So, because the bankers used the loopholes laws available to them, you're angry?  The fault that they got bailed out lies with the government, not the bankers.  You want idiots to be responsible for their own actions?  Then make laws that make them responsible.
Exactly. They did nothing illegal. They did plenty that is immoral, but since our society has long rejected the idea that morals are a good thing, I don't find it surprising they take every advantage legally available to them.

Yeah, nope.

If bankers followed the law, I'd be unhappy with the government. Not the bankers. Though buying enough Congresscritters to rewrite the laws to put hundreds of billions of losses on the taxpayers would put my personal ire back on them (as well as said Congresscritters). But no, there has been widespread systemic fraud that was and is criminal. Problem is, there were enough people with enough money to make it problematic for the US, if not global economy.

For a real example, Moody, S&P and Fitch Ratings were knowingly giving out ratings they knew to be false. This is fraud. Same as if you told investors you were making ten billion dollars in profit this quarter when you knew you were losing ten billion dollars. They committed fraud because agencies are paid by the organizations whose debt they rate.

Combined, they are 95% of the entire credit rating in the US and substantial percentage of the international marketing. If you appropriately arrested the knowing parties and took damages against the responsible parties (all of them), you have <5% of credit ratings agencies left. The remaining rating agencies are overseas and only used for international purposes. No one is going to buy an unrated bond. In many cases, it would be illegal to do so. In virtually all cases, you'd be sued by your investors, regulatory agencies, business partners, et al for making such an unwise move. It would have immediately halted a substantial part of the global economy, even if the feds allowed them to continue doing business while in trial.

So, the American government took the easy path and did nothing rather than take the 'right' steps and slow burned the Big Three in federal court. Because they were worried about the short term damage to the economy rather than the long term implications of paying out billions for risky or illegal behavior.


I can provide plenty more examples of actual criminal behavior. But I'd be deeply entertained to hear anyone attempt to explain away my given example as anything other than fraud. My money is on the "well, if the law isn't enforced, it's not actually illegal" dodge. Or more likely, just willfully ignoring any evidence.

 =D
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Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 03:17:48 PM »
Wait a sec.  Are you agree with the banks or the credit rating agencies?
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RevDisk

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 03:45:44 PM »
Wait a sec.  Are you agree with the banks or the credit rating agencies?

It was just the first example, and simplest, I could come up with on the fly. I can pick other examples if you would prefer?
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roo_ster

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2017, 03:51:42 PM »
Rev has the right of it.  And there are a potful more examples of fraud and illegality DESPITE disgusting, putrescent law-loopholes already extant in the legal and regulatory codes.  

Then there are the after the fact bailouts.  Financiers get to best others' money on high-risk high yield investments and reap the profits when things go good.  If things go bad, the taxpayers bail them out.

I am of the mind that we ought to decorate the highway lights on I-95 between NYC and DC with their corpses as a warning to others.  And south of DC we can do something similar for their buddies in gov't.
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roo_ster

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2017, 03:57:06 PM »
Wait a sec.  Are you agree with the banks or the credit rating agencies?

Who do you think influences the credit rating agencies to rate dogshit as 24K gold?  The banks (and gov't).  It is not a case of "either banks or credit rating agencies," but "both and more."

This sector has become a vampire on the economy, as can be seen by its share of the GDP relative to past times.  It needs a stake through the heart.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »
This sector has become a vampire on the economy, as can be seen by its share of the GDP relative to past times.  It needs a stake through the heart.


I now understand why you were so adamant about keeping Jackson on the currency.  =)
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Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2017, 06:33:38 PM »
So the bankers are bad and the politicians are bad because they all know each other.  Then who should be in charge of oversight?  I presume you want someone with experience and knowledge of the banking industry.

Solve the problem.
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Fly320s

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Re: Bankers
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2017, 06:35:54 PM »
I could come up with on the fly.

That makes me uncomfortable.   [barf]
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