Author Topic: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free  (Read 14062 times)

DittoHead

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2017, 08:01:15 AM »
Did Assange ever personally mishandle or steal our classified information? 

He didn't personally steal any of it but he certainly did mishandle it. Not the same way as Clinton or Petraeus as they were cleared to have it in the first place, but he knew he had classified info and decided the best course of action was to publish it on the internet.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2017, 08:07:35 AM »
One report I read said there was a sonar screen in the background.

I'm not aware of any SONAR (Its an acronym) screens in engineering spaces but I'm 25 years out of date
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2017, 08:12:05 AM »
He didn't personally steal any of it but he certainly did mishandle it. Not the same way as Clinton or Petraeus as they were cleared to have it in the first place, but he knew he had classified info and decided the best course of action was to publish it on the internet.

Assange is not a US citizen and has no real legal requirement to abide by US laws concerning classified material. On the other hand there may be some espionage statutes that he could be charged under but as far as I know he wasn't in the US when the theft and leak happened, he wasn't in the US when he received the material.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him and personally think he is deserving of termination.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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RevDisk

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2017, 08:19:53 AM »

https://huwieler.net/2017/01/18/chelsea-manning-in-basic-combat-training/

Interesting background on PVT Manning. Due to personal interaction with this whole saga, I was aware that Manning had significant mental issues. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't have any animosity towards trans folks. That said, if someone is having severe mental issues, the military is generally not the place for them. I'm quite aware of the military having a long and frankly stupid relationship with mental illness. We should have mental health available, and those mental health professionals should be able to pull the rip cord, give people that need it a general or medical discharge and VA benefits. Rather than let it escalate to Manning or Nidal Hasan. Which it too often does.

Even more fundamental than that, every drill sergeant in every branch of the US military should have the ability to drop a recruit regardless of quotas or other policy. If we can't trust a drill sergeants with that responsibility and duty, they shouldn't be a drill sergeant. I guarantee, over 95% of later problem children that make the news would have been dropped by their initial drill sergeants. Hell, most recruits could have pointed them out in about two seconds. Manning was clearly a nutter and screwup, from day one. All of us that went through Basic saw them and recognized them.

Manning showed all the classic signs. Being a quitter. Being a blue falcon. Drama. Not wanting to help fellow soldiers. Not trying. Manning isn't my primary concern. The other thousand potential Mannings are.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Scout26

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2017, 08:58:21 AM »
Rev nailed it.

I saw it back in 1983 at Leonard Wood.  Only back then, Drill Sergeants did have the ability to get rid of the sick, lame, and lazy.  We started off with around 230 and graduated 180 something.  We even picked up a few along way.  Guys that had gotten hurt or were getting a second chance because they couldn't complete some phase of training with their original company.   Most of the former graduated; very, very few of the latter (mostly Basic Rifle Marksmanship failures, they just couldn't quality with the M16, even spending most of their days on the Weaponeer.*)

A Manning type, weak mentally, would have been weed out and TDP'd (Trainee Discharge Program) the first two-three weeks.  That's when the Drills rode everyone hard, trying to get you to quit, to see how hard and how far they could you and you could push yourself.   By week five, those who could hack it, were going to graduate, baring being a *expletive deleted*ck-up and not being able to shoot or complete the common tasks for the end of cycle test. 

Yes, Manning obviously had/has mental problems.  And most definitely should have been discharged in BCT.  But the drive to keep up the numbers prevented that.  Lowering the standards also enable people like Manning to enlist and get passed through BCT, where the weeding out should have happened., but didn't.   

Does the Army (and US military) owe anything to folks like Manning, who joined with obvious mental issues?  No, I don't think so.  If I remember correctly about what they told us about TPD, was that it like you never joined.  The Army owes you nothing, and it's not like you were given a BCD or General Discharge.  It was basically "Thanks for Playing, you get no lovely parting gifts, just a bus ticket home."







* What made things even worse for those that NO-GO'd BRM was the fact that A) Most of the Drill Sergeants were Infantry. and even worse B)  The cycle before us, every last swinging richard had qualified with the M16 on the first try.  100% GO.  There was was this Red streamer on the Company Guidon that read "100% BRM".  And our Drills were bound and determined to repeat that feat.  When we didn't, not only did the bolos get absolutely smoked there at the range, but the entire company got smoked for the next week or so.  My arms still ache thinking about how much time I spent with my rifle held out in front of me.  It was like week 1 all over again.  And those that continued to bolo got more hell, then recycled.  It was only in week seven that we finally were taken off "Total Control", and the drills relaxed a bit.  But man were they pissed when we didn't 100% qualify.   

 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2017, 09:52:13 AM »

Manning showed all the classic signs. Being a quitter. Being a blue falcon. Drama. Not wanting to help fellow soldiers. Not trying. Manning isn't my primary concern. The other thousand potential Mannings are.

What's a blue falcon? Never encountered the term before.

[Edit] Never mind -- bravo foxtrot. Got it.
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RevDisk

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2017, 10:41:31 AM »

Apologies, I should have specified, VA mental health benefits for actual veterans. Should already be the case, but should be the case for folks thrown out of the military for being nutters. Cheaper than if some nutter goes ballistic after being thrown out.

Not folks kicked out in Basic.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2017, 11:01:08 AM »
Now the special little snowflake has penned a criticism of the very man who set it free.

 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/26/trump-rips-ungrateful-chelsea-manning-after-obama-criticism.html

Quote
“Unfortunately, despite [Obama’s] faith in our system and his positive track record on many issues over the last eight years, there have been very few permanent accomplishments,”
  :facepalm:

I would say you getting 20 some years cut from your sentence is rather permanent.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2017, 12:08:16 PM »
https://huwieler.net/2017/01/18/chelsea-manning-in-basic-combat-training/

Interesting background on PVT Manning. Due to personal interaction with this whole saga, I was aware that Manning had significant mental issues. Unlike a lot of folks here, I don't have any animosity towards trans folks. That said, if someone is having severe mental issues, the military is generally not the place for them. I'm quite aware of the military having a long and frankly stupid relationship with mental illness. We should have mental health available, and those mental health professionals should be able to pull the rip cord, give people that need it a general or medical discharge and VA benefits. Rather than let it escalate to Manning or Nidal Hasan. Which it too often does.

Even more fundamental than that, every drill sergeant in every branch of the US military should have the ability to drop a recruit regardless of quotas or other policy. If we can't trust a drill sergeants with that responsibility and duty, they shouldn't be a drill sergeant. I guarantee, over 95% of later problem children that make the news would have been dropped by their initial drill sergeants. Hell, most recruits could have pointed them out in about two seconds. Manning was clearly a nutter and screwup, from day one. All of us that went through Basic saw them and recognized them.

Manning showed all the classic signs. Being a quitter. Being a blue falcon. Drama. Not wanting to help fellow soldiers. Not trying. Manning isn't my primary concern. The other thousand potential Mannings are.
Regarding the bolded portion, I doubt anyone on here has any animosity towards trans folk in general.  I think most of us just have a live and let live policy.  Being forced to do something or pay for something is where we start getting upset. 
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RevDisk

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2017, 01:04:50 PM »


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/25/compromise-doesnt-work-political-opponents-chelsea-manning

Manning starts off by criticizing Obama as weak. Can't argue much with that, though oddly Trump did.

He complains about Pulse nightclub attack, oddly failing to note it as Islamic terrorism.

Rest is pretty aimless but emotional rant that poor, black, brown, queer and trans people will be mistreated unless an even more progressive President is elected. Because Clinton pandering to the usual suspects intermixed with "Why won't you lazy inbred counsin humping Flyover states vote for me?!" worked out so well for America.

Contrary to the interwebz exploding that Trump is literally Hitler and as Manning directly stated, just itching to lock up some, most or all "poor, black, brown, queer and trans people". I did find it odd about Manning not mentioning Islam once. I really don't want someone legitimately fascist obtaining the Oval Office, and the reaction of the loony left at pretty mundane middle of the road candidates like Mitt Romney doesn't help elevate that concern.

Just hoping that in 4 or 8 years we can have a chance to vote for the man we should have elected for the highest office in the United States Government, General Mattis.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2017, 02:52:06 PM »
Regarding the bolded portion, I doubt anyone on here has any animosity towards trans folk in general.  I think most of us just have a live and let live policy.  Being forced to do something or pay for something is where we start getting upset. 


For me, it was when the Left (of which the "trans community" seems happy to be a part) began their campaign to villify me and mine, simply because we didn't go along with their newly-concocted groupthink on the issue. It became obvious they were our enemy, even if they were only being used as tools against us.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2017, 07:33:29 PM »
As far as Assange goes.  I don't assign any guilt to him on this.  His mission statement is publishing secret stuff and dirt.  It is what he does.  It is also why he is hiding in a foreign embassy. 

IMO, the emails that got out with Hilary talking about ordering a drone strike on him tells me the role Wikileaks is playing should be played by someone (our own media?).  Another thought is that our own media and our Congressmen have published and released classified information in the past also. 
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MillCreek

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2017, 07:52:08 PM »

For me, it was when the Left (of which the "trans community" seems happy to be a part) began their campaign to villify me and mine, simply because we didn't go along with their newly-concocted groupthink on the issue. It became obvious they were our enemy, even if they were only being used as tools against us.

And of course the Right never vilified them and theirs or used violence against them.  ;/
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2017, 10:33:23 PM »
As far as Assange goes.  I don't assign any guilt to him on this.  His mission statement is publishing secret stuff and dirt.  It is what he does.  It is also why he is hiding in a foreign embassy. 

IMO, the emails that got out with Hilary talking about ordering a drone strike on him tells me the role Wikileaks is playing should be played by someone (our own media?).  Another thought is that our own media and our Congressmen have published and released classified information in the past also. 

I thought he was holed up in the embassy to avoid extradition for sexual assault charges.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Perd Hapley

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2017, 11:04:08 PM »
And of course the Right never vilified them and theirs or used violence against them.  ;/


What did you have in mind?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2017, 08:02:41 AM »
I thought he was holed up in the embassy to avoid extradition for sexual assault charges.


He is -- the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, specifically. But he (supposedly) said if Obama would commute Manning's sentence he would agree to be extradited.
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Scout26

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2017, 10:47:19 AM »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/25/compromise-doesnt-work-political-opponents-chelsea-manning

Manning starts off by criticizing Obama as weak. Can't argue much with that, though oddly Trump did.

He complains about Pulse nightclub attack, oddly failing to note it as Islamic terrorism.

Rest is pretty aimless but emotional rant that poor, black, brown, queer and trans people will be mistreated unless an even more progressive President is elected. Because Clinton pandering to the usual suspects intermixed with "Why won't you lazy inbred counsin humping Flyover states vote for me?!" worked out so well for America.

Contrary to the interwebz exploding that Trump is literally Hitler and as Manning directly stated, just itching to lock up some, most or all "poor, black, brown, queer and trans people". I did find it odd about Manning not mentioning Islam once. I really don't want someone legitimately fascist obtaining the Oval Office, and the reaction of the loony left at pretty mundane middle of the road candidates like Mitt Romney doesn't help elevate that concern.

Just hoping that in 4 or 8 years we can have a chance to vote for the man we should have elected for the highest office in the United States Government, General Mattis.

Manning is a ungrateful little *expletive deleted*ck, isn't he...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

MechAg94

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2017, 11:39:53 AM »
I thought he was holed up in the embassy to avoid extradition for sexual assault charges.

From what I have heard, the sexual assault charges amount to a he said-she said issue that is questionable.  If he were Muslim, they wouldn't care at all. 
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KD5NRH

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2017, 11:45:37 AM »
From what I have heard, the sexual assault charges amount to a he said-she said issue that is questionable.

This; one of those convenient accusations that only turned up when they needed something sufficiently universally reprehensible to charge him with.

wmenorr67

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2017, 12:07:31 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/27/jailed-navy-sailors-family-hopeful-after-trump-tells-hannity-is-considering-pardon.html

In other news Trump is mulling a pardon for the Sailor who is in prison for the sub pics.  Hope he issues it.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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BobR

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2017, 01:02:54 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/27/jailed-navy-sailors-family-hopeful-after-trump-tells-hannity-is-considering-pardon.html

In other news Trump is mulling a pardon for the Sailor who is in prison for the sub pics.  Hope he issues it.

The only problem (well the biggest problem) I have with this kid getting a pardon is from the way the breach was discovered.

The sailor admitted he knew the areas was classified yet he took the pictures to "show his family what he did in the Navy". If that was the case then why did the phone with the pictures still on it end up at the local dump where it was discovered by the dump foreman?

Also, allegedly after he was contacted by the FBI and NCIS he decided destroying the evidence was the prudent course of action.

I think he is lucky he only got a year.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-servicemember-admits-illegally-retaining-photos-taken-inside-nuclear-submarine-and

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-sailor-submarine-photos-sentenced-20160819-story.html


bob


Hawkmoon

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2017, 02:21:31 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/27/jailed-navy-sailors-family-hopeful-after-trump-tells-hannity-is-considering-pardon.html

In other news Trump is mulling a pardon for the Sailor who is in prison for the sub pics.  Hope he issues it.

I would rather he pardon Snowdon.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2017, 04:09:45 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/15/chelsea-manning-to-remain-in-army-receive-health-care-benefits-after-prison-release.html

So this special little snowflake is getting out of the DB this week but is going to remain on active duty, w/ no pay but w/ health benefits.  Most likely going to have its manhood removed.

Be curious as to where it will be stationed and what duties it will be expected to carry out while waiting to be officially released.  I would say cutting grass with a pair of scissors, one blade at a time would be nice, or painting rocks.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

makattak

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2017, 04:17:01 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/15/chelsea-manning-to-remain-in-army-receive-health-care-benefits-after-prison-release.html

So this special little snowflake is getting out of the DB this week but is going to remain on active duty, w/ no pay but w/ health benefits.  Most likely going to have its manhood removed.

I think the man is crazy and a traitor, but even I think that mutilation is a punishment beyond the pale.

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Scout26

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Re: Obama Commutes Manning's sentence/Manning to go free
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2017, 05:14:02 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/15/chelsea-manning-to-remain-in-army-receive-health-care-benefits-after-prison-release.html

So this special little snowflake is getting out of the DB this week but is going to remain on active duty, w/ no pay but w/ health benefits.  Most likely going to have its manhood removed.

Be curious as to where it will be stationed and what duties it will be expected to carry out while waiting to be officially released.  I would say cutting grass with a pair of scissors, one blade at a time would be nice, or painting rocks.

Probably down at Ft. Sam Houston, in the same unit with Bergdahl....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.