Bullet fragments linked to lead poisoning, CDC study says

[MechAg94]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/health/bullets-blood-lead-study/
   or      I am not quite sure which.  Maybe both. 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that, overall, fewer than 1% of cases of adults with elevated blood lead levels were caused by retained bullet fragments. However, for those with the highest blood lead levels, nearly 5% of cases could be linked to bullets.

Can I cite this on my IRS tax return and demand a larger refund?

[T.O.M.]

And here is the next angle of attack...lead containing bullets are hazardous materials,  and must be banned.  Then shooting ranges.  And on and on...

[TommyGunn]

How do I get "retained bullet fragments" in my body aside from being shot?   I get  shot and the CDC is worried I might have bullet fragments?
Is it OK if I worry about the  BULLET??

[Jim147]

My wife's grandfather died a few years ago at 92-94 years old . There is some question since he lied to join the military. He got his bullet on Anzio beach. It wasn't lead poisoning that killed him.

[MechAg94]

And here is the next angle of attack...lead containing bullets are hazardous materials,  and must be banned.  Then shooting ranges.  And on and on...

Speaking of that:  the gun club I belong to just had a company come in and recover lead from the berms on the pistol and rifle ranges.  It has been open since the 60's.  They got 17 tons of lead out for recycle.  I am trying to figure how much of the berms were still dirt 2 weeks ago. 

[Fly320s]

Speaking of that:  the gun club I belong to just had a company come in and recover lead from the berms on the pistol and rifle ranges.  It has been open since the 60's.  They got 17 tons of lead out for recycle.  I am trying to figure how much of the berms were still dirt 2 weeks ago. 

Did they do any soil testing around the area for lead?  Other than in the berms?  Or ground water testing?  Just curious.

[Hawkmoon]

What a surprise! Whoever wudda thunk that "lead poisoning" (thank you, Louis L'Amour) might cause lead poisoning?

[Mannlicher]

CDC is another government swamp that needs to be drained

[KD5NRH]

They got 17 tons of lead out for recycle.

That's still less than 2 cubic yards.

Bit more than will fit in anything Lee makes, though.

[MechAg94]

That's still less than 2 cubic yards.

Bit more than will fit in anything Lee makes, though.

I didn't come up with a volume, but yeah, not that much volume.  I figure it was low compared to 4 or 5 decades of shooting.

[MechAg94]

Did they do any soil testing around the area for lead?  Other than in the berms?  Or ground water testing?  Just curious.

They did do testing.  I am not sure how extensive.  They also did testing at a shotgun range which is at a different location.  It didn't have enough lead to justify the work yet. 

[Firethorn]

My wife's grandfather died a few years ago at 92-94 years old . There is some question since he lied to join the military. He got his bullet on Anzio beach. It wasn't lead poisoning that killed him.

Lead poisoning isn't normally fatal, but can cause brain damage that lowers intelligence and hinders aggression controls. 

IE a person who has elevated lead levels is more likely to become a stupid violent criminal.  It is not guaranteed, and exposure when a child matters more than an adult.  But researchers, for example, were able to pin down an estimated number of additional violent crimes per ton of TEL burned in gasoline engines.

They did do testing.  I am not sure how extensive.  They also did testing at a shotgun range which is at a different location.  It didn't have enough lead to justify the work yet. 

This is where EPA measures to limit acid rain probably helped.  Elemental lead isn't very soluble short of water that's outright acidic. 

[KD5NRH]

But researchers, for example, were able to pin down an estimated number of additional violent crimes per ton of TEL burned in gasoline engines.

So what's the excuse now?  Been more than 20 years since you could buy a tank of regular leaded, other than AvGas.

[Firethorn]

So what's the excuse now?  Been more than 20 years since you could buy a tank of regular leaded, other than AvGas.

Have you perused the violent crime rates recently and compared them to the '80s?

There was roughly a 18 year delay between the TEL burning and the crimes.  As in violent crime spiked 18 years after introduction of TEL to an area, and spiked down 18 years after.

I believe that it's a lot of the reason you're seeing gentrification and people moving back into the cities, because, for the most part, they were where the crime spiked and subsequently settled back down.

[MechAg94]

Have you perused the violent crime rates recently and compared them to the '80s?

There was roughly a 18 year delay between the TEL burning and the crimes.  As in violent crime spiked 18 years after introduction of TEL to an area, and spiked down 18 years after.

I believe that it's a lot of the reason you're seeing gentrification and people moving back into the cities, because, for the most part, they were where the crime spiked and subsequently settled back down.

So what is Chicago's excuse?   

[Firethorn]

So what is Chicago's excuse?   

Not sure:



1967-2002 is approximately the crime rise triggered by the lead, under current theories.  The 2016 spike?  Not sure.

[Scout26]

Did they do any soil testing around the area for lead?  Other than in the berms?  Or ground water testing?  Just curious.

We did when we moved out of our old club.  As long as the soil is fairly pH neutral, the lead(shot and/or bullets) just develops an oxidation layer around it, and becomes stable.  It doesn't break down, or leech, or otherwise degrade.  It just sits there, again, baring a highly acidic or alkaline soil.

The problem a club can run into (once it ceases operations or moves) is that the EPA standard for "clean" is a moving target.   It all depends on what the land will be used for next.   Housing development.  Kids have to be able to eat the dirt, so you might as well haul it all away, and bring in clean.   Shot usually only goes ~6 inches deep, if the ground is muddy, bullets go ~3 ft into a berm, max.  IIRC.    Never, ever, ever use tires as part of your backstop.  Makes digging out the lead uneconomical and a cast iron bitch.  Same with letting anything larger than grass or weeds grow in you shot fall areas.  How do I know that.  My club had both, making it uneconmical to recover lead at our former location (which is still for sale by the new owner, 9 years later... )

We had to do testing all around the property.  Dirt samples (IIRC, somewhere around 20 from berms and 60 from the shot fall areas) all tested "OK" after the bullets and shot were screened out of the samples.   In fact, IIRC, the numbers were the same for samples from the shooting and non-shooting parts of the club they sampled.   The only area with any elevated levels of elemental lead contamination was along both side of the county road running next to the club.