Author Topic: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education  (Read 4859 times)

MillCreek

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Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« on: February 20, 2017, 12:38:42 AM »
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170219

I learn something every day.  My primary contact with JW has been professional, in the context of their healthcare beliefs.  I had no idea that they were against higher education.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 01:07:58 AM »
I didn't know that, either.
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De Selby

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 07:38:03 AM »
Makes sense.  I wouldn't be sending people for extensive education if that was my business model either.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 08:10:56 AM »
Well, they are right about one thing...

Quote
"the most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous."
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Ben

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 09:30:26 AM »
Well, they are right about one thing...

Quote
"the most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous."


I was just about to post that. They are absolutely right, but that's when a student in higher education has to fish or cut bait regarding individual thought. Admittedly, because I went back to college and grad school later in life, I had an advantage of experience, but I had no problem questioning professors. Sometimes they, along with reference material, convinced me regarding their point of view, sometimes the reverse. A couple of classes I ended up taking credit/no credit because the professor was simply an ass, but I needed the classes, so I didn't worry about getting an "A" and just pursued my own research in those areas of my discipline.

Higher education or religion, the weak-minded can be negatively influenced, whether by an SJW professor or by the Westboro Baptists. That doesn't mean you deter people who can think for themselves from pursuing knowledge in either area.
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HankB

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 09:32:11 AM »
Even with the problem of leftist indoctrination in public schools and some colleges and universities, there's something really sick about an organization that glorifies and espouses ignorance.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 09:45:07 AM »
Even with the problem of leftist indoctrination in public schools and some colleges and universities, there's something really sick about an organization that glorifies and espouses ignorance.

Are we talking about JWs or public schools?  At least the JWs also discourage voting, so they're less of a burden on the rest of us.

TommyGunn

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 11:19:40 AM »
 :facepalm:  I know several JWs.  NONE are against higher education. 
Now, they do not believe in evolution (they take the bible seriously) but I don't believe they have a problem with evolution being taught as long as it is refered to as a "theory"  -- which it is.

This seems to be little more than just another lamestream media "attack piece" on religious people. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MillCreek

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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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KD5NRH

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 01:14:46 PM »
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/

So...94% of them believe the Bible is the word of God...but only 50% believe in Heaven?  Do they think God was just BSing about that whole "everlasting life in Paradise" bit?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 01:21:00 PM »
:facepalm:  I know several JWs.  NONE are against higher education.  

This seems to be little more than just another lamestream media "attack piece" on religious people.  

It certainly is the latter, but that doesn't mean NPR is entirely wrong. The article says this is the official position of the Watchtower. If that's true, the criticism is just as valid as it would be if, say, the Southern Baptist Convention had taken such a position. All that being said...


I was just about to post that. They are absolutely right, but that's when a student in higher education has to fish or cut bait regarding individual thought. Admittedly, because I went back to college and grad school later in life, I had an advantage of experience, but I had no problem questioning professors.

I was thinking the same thing. Regardless of your religious beliefs, there's a lot of poison being pumped into impressionable "skulls full of mush" at the university level. (See Berkeley, SJWs, etc.) I've heard plenty of religious people, Baptist, Lutheran, etc, warn about the pitfalls of what currently passes for a college education. I can't say I've heard any recommending against college altogether. And I'm surprised there isn't a movement (or not one I've heard of) among American parents to encourage young people to get a few years of life experience in between high school and college.
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cordex

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 01:25:29 PM »
So...94% of them believe the Bible is the word of God...but only 50% believe in Heaven?  Do they think God was just BSing about that whole "everlasting life in Paradise" bit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_salvation
Quote
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
Quote
Watch Tower Society literature states that Jesus' use of the term "other sheep" in John 10:16 was intended to indicate that the majority of his followers were not part of the 144,000 and would have an earthly, rather than heavenly, hope. In the resurrection, those who died faithful to God are included in the 'other sheep' and will receive the "resurrection of the righteous" ("just" KJV) mentioned in Acts 24:15. Those who died without faithfully serving God will receive the "resurrection of the ... unrighteous" ("unjust" KJV). They will be given an opportunity to gain God's favor and join Jesus' 'other sheep' and live forever in an earthly paradise.

KD5NRH

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 02:31:20 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_salvation

That belief still pretty much requires acknowledgement of the existence of Heaven.  One needn't base one's Earthly existence around plans to go to Nauru in order to believe that it exists.

(Nauru, and the Nauruan people are indispensable, as without them there would be no palindromic nationalities.  Thus many JWs probably don't believe in them either.)

TommyGunn

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 02:36:46 PM »
It certainly is the latter, but that doesn't mean NPR is entirely wrong. The article says this is the official position of the Watchtower. If that's true, the criticism is just as valid as it would be if, say, the Southern Baptist Convention had taken such a position. All that being said...

I've actually read some of those.   I never found any statements against higher ed.   If there IS some then there are a number of Jehovah's Witnesses who weren't listening ....or who are not listening now.


Just my 2cents... I'm a believer in higher ed myself, and I am a college graduate with a B. A.  In English  and a later degree in Drafting.  I've never believed that religion and modern science were somehow diametrically opposed.   You can have both, IMHO,  but trying to reconcile  some biblical stories  with science,  or archeological records,  can certainly be a challenge, especially if you believe in the literal truth of the Bible over a metaphysical truth.
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Marnoot

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 02:46:42 PM »
So...94% of them believe the Bible is the word of God...but only 50% believe in Heaven?  Do they think God was just BSing about that whole "everlasting life in Paradise" bit?

You find stuff like this in surveys. Just because someone identifies as a member of a particular religion, doesn't imply they know much about the stated religion's doctrines and practices, nor that they follow them. See Lapsed Catholic, Jack Mormon, Cafeteria Christian etc. I'm sure JWs have their equivalent.

cordex

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2017, 03:07:17 PM »
That belief still pretty much requires acknowledgement of the existence of Heaven. 
The questionnaire is available here: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/11/201.11.03_RLS_II_questionnaire.pdf

The actual question was:
Quote
Do you think there is a heaven, where people who have led good lives are eternally rewarded?
The provided answers from Jehovah's Witnesses were:
Yes (50%)
No (38%)
Or, if the person volunteered another response then the survey taker could say "other" or "don't know/refused" (12%).

If a group has a nontraditional belief in heaven, I don't think it is at all unusual that some members might say "Well, no, not heaven with harps and Saint Peter at the pearly gates and stuff like everyone else believes in."  Others might well say "Sure, but only 144,000 of us get to go."  Still others might say "Well, yes, but for most of us it will be on earth, so maybe yes, maybe no."

MechAg94

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2017, 03:10:42 PM »
I've actually read some of those.   I never found any statements against higher ed.   If there IS some then there are a number of Jehovah's Witnesses who weren't listening ....or who are not listening now.


Just my 2cents... I'm a believer in higher ed myself, and I am a college graduate with a B. A.  In English  and a later degree in Drafting.  I've never believed that religion and modern science were somehow diametrically opposed.   You can have both, IMHO,  but trying to reconcile  some biblical stories  with science,  or archeological records,  can certainly be a challenge, especially if you believe in the literal truth of the Bible over a metaphysical truth.

There is often a lot of confusion over exactly what the Bible literally says.  There is also often a lot of confusion over what science really says with subjects like evolution.
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MechAg94

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2017, 03:12:22 PM »
The questionnaire is available here: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/11/201.11.03_RLS_II_questionnaire.pdf

The actual question was: The provided answers from Jehovah's Witnesses were:
Yes (50%)
No (38%)
Or, if the person volunteered another response then the survey taker could say "other" or "don't know/refused" (12%).

If a group has a nontraditional belief in heaven, I don't think it is at all unusual that some members might say "Well, no, not heaven with harps and Saint Peter at the pearly gates and stuff like everyone else believes in."  Others might well say "Sure, but only 144,000 of us get to go."  Still others might say "Well, yes, but for most of us it will be on earth, so maybe yes, maybe no."
Or they might say "No, you don't get into heaven just because you led a good life." 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cordex

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2017, 03:39:46 PM »
Or they might say "No, you don't get into heaven just because you led a good life." 
Good point.

KD5NRH

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2017, 03:50:09 PM »
You find stuff like this in surveys. Just because someone identifies as a member of a particular religion, doesn't imply they know much about the stated religion's doctrines and practices, nor that they follow them. See Lapsed Catholic, Jack Mormon, Cafeteria Christian etc. I'm sure JWs have their equivalent.

Not following isn't the same as not knowing.  And denying something that's in the Bible while believing that the Bible itself is the word of God is still somewhat contradictory.

How long could one actually be even moderately active LDS (past age 8 - obviously a four year old can be an active Mormon all his life and still not know how to spell it correctly) without knowing at least the basic beliefs?  How many who have been inactive so long as to not know central concepts still claim the religion?  We're not talking about [insert random word or phrase not necessarily having any logical connection to Christianity] Baptists here.

Marnoot

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2017, 05:32:35 PM »
How long could one actually be even moderately active LDS (past age 8 - obviously a four year old can be an active Mormon all his life and still not know how to spell it correctly) without knowing at least the basic beliefs?  How many who have been inactive so long as to not know central concepts still claim the religion?  We're not talking about [insert random word or phrase not necessarily having any logical connection to Christianity] Baptists here.

In this context, claiming the religion is a cultural identity thing, not a religious thing. Focusing strictly on the LDS example, generally the sort I'm talking about were never really even moderately active. General template is this: parents aren't active in the church, don't teach their kids anything, but they consider themselves Mormon and they want their kids to be Mormon. So they bring the kids to church long enough for the kids to be taught and baptized, then drop off again. Generally the kids will then attend rarely-to-sporadically until they're in the midst of being a teenager, then rarely-to-never. If you ask them as an adult what religion they are, they'll say Mormon, but they know or remember almost nothing about the basic doctrines.

Replace LDS/Mormon above with Catholic or Protestant, and I've met many people that fit the description there too. e.g. People that say they're Baptist, but have a distinctly antitrinitarian or modalist understanding of God, etc.

Not following isn't the same as not knowing.  And denying something that's in the Bible while believing that the Bible itself is the word of God is still somewhat contradictory.

I don't disagree in the slightest. I mentioned Cafeteria Christians for a reason. I've heard all sorts of mental gymnastics to (attempt to) rationalize doing exactly that, from people of multiple Judeo-Christian faiths.

MechAg94

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2017, 05:36:34 PM »
I was looking at things from the perspective of what would trip up and confuse an 18 year old Christian kid going to college and getting exposed to rabid atheists for the first time.  Some Churches and parents pay more attention to teaching basic fundamentals than others.  Some kids pay little attention to those details even if taught multiple times.  I figure getting exposed to things that challenge your beliefs and understanding is part of growing up to adulthood.  

And what Marnoot said.  It underscores the responsibility of parents to teach their kids constantly and make sure they learn and understand the things they expect them to know.  You can't dump that responsibility off on others.  

And just to be clear, there is nothing new about any of this except maybe the specific religion/beliefs.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2017, 06:31:09 PM »
If you ask them as an adult what religion they are, they'll say Mormon, but they know or remember almost nothing about the basic doctrines.

So it turns them into normal Utah Mormons?   =D

Quote
I don't disagree in the slightest. I mentioned Cafeteria Christians for a reason. I've heard all sorts of mental gymnastics to (attempt to) rationalize doing exactly that, from people of multiple Judeo-Christian faiths.
Yes...I know multiple local religious leaders have been trying to beat Deuteronomy 23:1 through the "devout Baptist" shemale wanna-be's (as in, got the boobs, but is trying to find a church that will support its decision to get the man-bits removed) head.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2017, 10:29:28 PM »
There is often a lot of confusion over exactly what the Bible literally says.  There is also often a lot of confusion over what science really says with subjects like evolution.

There's not much confusion as to what the Bible "literally" says. The problem is that it's "literally" in a language that only a handful of people in the world can read at all, and there's not a true consensus as to what the original words (or as close to them as archeologists have been able to find) mean when translated into any of the modern, western languages.
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gunsmith

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in higher education
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2017, 03:16:24 AM »
nearly every darned major war in the last 50 to 100 years was started by college geniuses  :old:
I used to love saying that to college protesters 
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