Author Topic: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)  (Read 2340 times)

zxcvbob

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I have a friend whose team is being eliminated where I work.  He's been looking for a job in other depts and they all say they'd love to hire him but can't get a position opened up.  He's a good worker *and* has a wealth of knowledge that I hate to see disappear because I tap it frequently.

Monday afternoon I saw an H1B VISA notice posted on the legal bulletin board by the cafeteria.   :mad:  I told him about it Tuesday morning, and he went down there and the notice has been taken down.  My boss (who wants to hire the guy) is gonna try to track it down.

So the company has filed a legal notice with fed.gov that they can't find anyone in the USA to fill the job, while at the exact same time telling a worker that he'll have to be let go soon because no work is available.  I don't know if he's qualified for the job or not, but I assume he has a legal claim to apply for the job.

I'd kind of like to report this to the Dept of Labor.   [ar15]
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zahc

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 11:50:45 AM »
This is pretty standard practice. If DOL cared, they would be doing something about it.
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zxcvbob

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 12:42:55 PM »
I've known they do it, I just didn't think I'd catch them in a specific example.
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charby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 03:53:41 PM »
My take on them, if there is a temporary talent shortage I can see their value. Only temporary use, like 18 months or less non renewable for 18 months after term.

If you can't afford to pay market rate wages to an available labor pool, you should sell your company to your competitors because either your greedy or a terrible manager/business owner.
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HankB

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 05:16:15 PM »
There are a LOT of American tech workers - mostly in their 40s and 50s - who are unable to find work because positions they are eminently qualified for are being filled by foreign H1B visa workers who are willing to work for fish heads and rice.

AND - even if the experienced Americans were ready and willing to work for entry level wages, employers STILL PREFER the foreign workers, since their H1B visas essentially handcuff them to the employer.
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charby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 06:06:58 PM »
My take on them, if there is a temporary talent shortage I can see their value. Only temporary use, like 18 months or less non renewable for 18 months after term.

If you can't afford to pay market rate wages to an available labor pool, you should sell your company to your competitors because either your greedy or a terrible manager/business owner.

AG workers can have a shorter term between new visas, but only allowed a 9 month visa, have to wait 3 months for a new one.
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wmenorr67

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 08:28:37 AM »
Hell if you really want to save money and are near a prison system, work out a deal where you hire inmate labor.
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Jocassee

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 09:19:09 AM »
H1B in its current configuration has to go, and I wish to God the Trump admin would make a priority out of it.
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De Selby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 05:27:42 PM »
So you're saying the government should tell business who they can and can't hire?

Interesting
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Perd Hapley

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 06:09:00 PM »
So you're saying the government should tell business who they can and can't hire?

Interesting

So you're saying that corporations should control our borders, and not government?
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De Selby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 09:17:45 PM »
So you're saying that corporations should control our borders, and not government?

That's a good point.  Why not let the market determine the best outcome?
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Regolith

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 10:20:07 PM »
That's a good point.  Why not let the market determine the best outcome?

The true free market solution wouldn't come with many of the "upsides" that these companies like about using H1B labor,such as the "handcuffing" mentioned above. That's governmental intervention.

It'd still depress wages, but not quite as much, because the immigrants would be free to walk as soon as they got a better offer.
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Fitz

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 10:40:58 PM »
That's a good point.  Why not let the market determine the best outcome?

foul

the h1b program is anything but free market. Workers here are tethered to this employer, regardless of how they're treated, for YEARS.
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mtnbkr

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 06:52:40 AM »
It'd still depress wages, but not quite as much, because the immigrants would be free to walk as soon as they got a better offer.

And walk they would because that's exactly what they do in their home country.  I've seen new hires job hop before they even start the new job they just accepted. 

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2017, 08:01:01 AM »
That's a good point.  Why not let the market determine the best outcome?

Is our "free" market supposed to be for the benefit US citizens or are US citizens just disposable cogs in the global market who can be tossed aside when they lose their utility?

National governments often act like a union for their people, protecting their interests in the global economy.

Our "union" has lost sight of who they are supposed to represent and has been working for themselves and select others.

The people elected a new union boss. If he doesn't get things back on track the people may decide they don't want to be in this union any more.

I spent decades being an open borders global free market proponent libertarian. Decades  
being the proponent of a political philosophy that was just as Utopian and just as unworkable in the real world as Communism.

The open borders global market system has supplanted our national identity and culture. A rich common culture of strong families, strong neighborhoods and national pride of being an American. We are losing our identity as a nation, the glue that binds us and our culture has become debased. Our culture is now a hodge podge of the lowest common denominator in every area. A non-judgmental consumer society of hedonists.
  
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 08:30:47 AM by Ron »
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Jocassee

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2017, 09:39:23 AM »
That's a good point.  Why not let the market determine the best outcome?

I'm a nationalist libertarian. Borders should be used to the advantage of people that already live here.
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charby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 11:28:07 AM »
I spent decades being an open borders global free market proponent libertarian. Decades  
being the proponent of a political philosophy that was just as Utopian and just as unworkable in the real world as Communism.

The open borders global market system has supplanted our national identity and culture. A rich common culture of strong families, strong neighborhoods and national pride of being an American. We are losing our identity as a nation, the glue that binds us and our culture has become debased. Our culture is now a hodge podge of the lowest common denominator in every area. A non-judgmental consumer society of hedonists.
  

Wow, I feel much of the same way. I used to big time in favor of open trade/open borders, really changed my mind over the last 5-7 years.

Everyone wants it cheaper, don't even care (or understand) that begins to marginalize their own person wealth.
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MechAg94

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 12:02:39 PM »
I used to like the free trade stuff, but mainly because I didn't know much about it.  I don't see an issue with reasonable import/export tariffs.  The excessive regulations and restrictions these days are probably much more costly than the actual tariffs. 
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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 12:52:53 PM »
Is our "free" market supposed to be for the benefit US citizens or are US citizens just disposable cogs in the global market who can be tossed aside when they lose their utility?

National governments often act like a union for their people, protecting their interests in the global economy.

Our "union" has lost sight of who they are supposed to represent and has been working for themselves and select others.

The people elected a new union boss. If he doesn't get things back on track the people may decide they don't want to be in this union any more.

....

The open borders global market system has supplanted our national identity and culture. A rich common culture of strong families, strong neighborhoods and national pride of being an American. We are losing our identity as a nation, the glue that binds us and our culture has become debased. Our culture is now a hodge podge of the lowest common denominator in every area. A non-judgmental consumer society of hedonists.
  

Excellent and mostly ditto except for the deleted part. I like the union boss analogy.

freakazoid

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2017, 06:27:50 PM »
I have a friend whose team is being eliminated where I work.  He's been looking for a job in other depts and they all say they'd love to hire him but can't get a position opened up.  He's a good worker *and* has a wealth of knowledge that I hate to see disappear because I tap it frequently.

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De Selby

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Re: H1B VISA's (not sure if this goes in Round Table or Politics)
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 06:36:09 PM »
Is our "free" market supposed to be for the benefit US citizens or are US citizens just disposable cogs in the global market who can be tossed aside when they lose their utility?

National governments often act like a union for their people, protecting their interests in the global economy.

Our "union" has lost sight of who they are supposed to represent and has been working for themselves and select others.

The people elected a new union boss. If he doesn't get things back on track the people may decide they don't want to be in this union any more.

I spent decades being an open borders global free market proponent libertarian. Decades  
being the proponent of a political philosophy that was just as Utopian and just as unworkable in the real world as Communism.

The open borders global market system has supplanted our national identity and culture. A rich common culture of strong families, strong neighborhoods and national pride of being an American. We are losing our identity as a nation, the glue that binds us and our culture has become debased. Our culture is now a hodge podge of the lowest common denominator in every area. A non-judgmental consumer society of hedonists.
  


I agree with this but feel compelled to point out the obvious:  market ideology does not work for people.  It never has.  Part of the confused conservative politics we have now results from an attempt to redefine all the terrible consequences of global markets as positive goods.  There's also this mantra that the market always delivers.

What we need is to clearly articulate what matters (people, our culture, our wealth) and adopt policies that serve it.  Not policies that implement market principles.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."