Trump accuses Obama of tapping Trump Tower phones

[Monkeyleg]

This is going to get ugly. I hope Trump has the evidence to back it all up.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-administration-wiretapping-trump-tower-phones.html

[RocketMan]

If Trump is just shooting from the hip like he does with so many other pronouncements, then the Dems are going to hand him his ass.
If Trump has ironclad evidence that Obama and crew did wiretap his property, nothing will come of it.  Obama's team will make the claim that it was all part of a legit investigation.  There have already been reports of Obama and Co. going to the FISA court to get authorization for the taps.
Really, this is a lose-lose deal for Trump.  He should have kept his mouth shut.

[230RN]

Oh, he's probably got some cards up his sleeve.  Can't imagine what, but odds are he's got something going.  P= 0.8; 5:4 odds.

I wonder, with no real basis, if he's ultimately setting things up to go after that phony FISA court system and maybe the whole surveillance act.  "Special Needs Doctrine," meaning "Our Party needs to screw the other Party," so weasel-words are generated by Our Party's lawyers to justify a wiretap.  Of anybody, including Trump's pre-Presidency operations.

(   Maybe he's setting it up to legitimize wiretapping of the DNC.   )

Just blue-skying it. 'Twould also be funny if it ultimately boils down to a shootin' battle between SCOTUS and the FISA courts.

Terry the Greek  

[Hawkmoon]

Maybe it's not a lose-lose for Trump. The way the FISA courts operate is unacceptable in a free society. Secret courts, secret evidence, and the judges aren't even allowed to keep records of their decisions? Where's the right of appeal, if there's no record of what "evidence" was presented to obtain a warrant? It's about time somebody challenged this kangaroo court system.

What possible justification could a political office holder have for wiretapping the telephones of a leading contender from the opposition party? "National security"? Was Trump advocating armed rebellion? Was Trump proposing the overthrow of the United States government? No -- Trump was campaigning for the office that Obama held. But it would have been easy for a Democratic AG's office to find a Democratic judge who would have been overjoyed to sign a warrant to spy on Trump, since the warrant would be secret and there would never be any record of the judge's decision other than a signature on a piece of paper. Thus, no accountability whatsoever.

[Ben]

I agree with the first two posts. He'd better have 100% concrete evidence. This is the "Twitter Trump" that I don't like, because all too often, what he "outs" in this way is nebulous. Not a big deal if it's putting a burr under some senator's saddle in political back and forth. However, this is the kind of thing you don't announce unless you have irrefutable evidence. Otherwise the only people that will cut him slack will be true blue Trumpites.

[230RN]

What possible justification could a political office holder have for wiretapping the telephones of a leading contender from the opposition party? "National security"? Was Trump advocating armed rebellion? Was Trump proposing the overthrow of the United States government? No -- Trump was campaigning for the office that Obama held. But it would have been easy for a Democratic AG's office to find a Democratic judge who would have been overjoyed to sign a warrant to spy on Trump, since the warrant would be secret and there would never be any record of the judge's decision other than a signature on a piece of paper. Thus, no accountability whatsoever.

Yeah, that's basically what I was sayin'.  But you put it better than I did.

Terry, 230RN

[HankB]

Without some pretty solid evidence, Trump will look bad - very bad - even to his supporters.

Even for a man with his "shoot from the hip" style, I suspect that there's something to this - maybe the new AG found records at the Justice Department of Obama/Holder/Lynch playing some hanky panky with wiretaps.

We'll see if this story develops legs. 

[Kingcreek]

I think you mean...
Shoot from the LIP

[Kingcreek]

Trump saying "I'll see your fake news and raise you ...
More fake news!"
If he wants to be a good and effective press he needs to stop stepping on his dick

[Ron]

I agree with the first two posts. He'd better have 100% concrete evidence. This is the "Twitter Trump" that I don't like, because all too often, what he "outs" in this way is nebulous. Not a big deal if it's putting a burr under some senator's saddle in political back and forth. However, this is the kind of thing you don't announce unless you have irrefutable evidence. Otherwise the only people that will cut him slack will be true blue Trumpites.

I cringe just like you do every time I read about a new Presidential tweet, yet...

[Ben]

I cringe just like you do every time I read about a new Presidential tweet, yet...

Yup, you (and Scott) are exactly right.

I also totally get that for his other tweets, and was kind of coming around to that way of thinking. Still don't like them, but if they work...

This just seems to be a pretty big one though, at least if he has no hard evidence. But as the cartoon states, historically he seems to have a knack for pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

[gunsmith]

there is something to this story, I'm sure.
local ABC/NBC 6oclock news said "Obama didn't AUTHORIZE a wire tap"

Right, he just smiled when told about it and nodded his head in approval.
Notice how no one in the media is saying "no way would obama/dnc do this" they are saying there is no proof.

[Monkeyleg]

Yup, you (and Scott) are exactly right.

I also totally get that for his other tweets, and was kind of coming around to that way of thinking. Still don't like them, but if they work...

This just seems to be a pretty big one though, at least if he has no hard evidence. But as the cartoon states, historically he seems to have a knack for pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

Trump has 24 million Twitter followers. The daily circulation of the New York Times is 551,500. The daily circulation of the WAPO is 474,767. The NBC Nightly News has a daily viewership of 8.5 million. ABC has 9.03 million. CBS has 7.29 million. That's 25.8 million total for those media outlets. Trump reaches almost as many as those big five combined.

[gunsmith]

Obama din't authorize the wiretapping, but when he became aware of it he did an interpretive dance indicating he was pleased with the mating ritual

[French G.]

This will go down like Iraq WMD. Ten years from now anyone with a clue will know that Trump was substantially correct, but at that point what difference will it make?

[HankB]

Obama din't authorize the wiretapping, but when he became aware of it he did an interpretive dance indicating he was pleased with the mating ritual

That's how executives establish plausible deniability - THEY don't personally order illegal/unethical activities, they just hire those who will do it on their own without explicit instructions.

[Angel Eyes]

Some interesting claims being made by Hannity and Mark Levin:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/04/hannity-tweetstorm-grills-obama-underlings-on-fisa-trump-attack/

Hannity grillied the three on the shocking revelations recently outlined by radio host Mark Levin and expanded on by Breitbart News that show that starting in June, 2016 the Obama administration filed requests with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court to monitor communications involving Donald Trump and several advisers.

Not sure at this point how much substance there is to these reports.  Should be fun to watch.


ETA: Mukasey says there likely was surveillance of Trump Tower at the behest of the AG:  http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/322403-former-bush-ag-trump-right-that-there-was-surveillance


More ETA:  National Review weighs in:  http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445504/obama-camp-disingenuous-denials-fisa-surveillance-trump

[Blakenzy]

Never a boring day int the Trump Administration 

 

[Monkeyleg]

Never a boring day int the Trump Administration in the Democrat Resistance Movement

FIFY

[Hawkmoon]

More ETA:  National Review weighs in:  http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445504/obama-camp-disingenuous-denials-fisa-surveillance-trump

Good article.

[Perd Hapley]

Meanwhile, the day before the inauguration...


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html?_r=2

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

[Jim147]

I was looking for that article but got tired of searching.

[DittoHead]

Having congress investigate this seems a little strange to me. What information are they going to be able to get out of the IC that Trump couldn't?

Chaffetz also acknowledged that as president, Trump has the authority to prove his allegation true by declassifying the FISA court order that presumably would have been needed to authorize a wiretap on Trump Tower. If Trump’s allegation is true, Chaffetz said, “the paper trail should be there.”

[MechAg94]

I saw the National Review article via twitter.  It made some good points about the denials being carefully worded.  I think that sort of careful denial has been a common occurrence from the Obama Administration over the last 8 years.  Apparently the Obama Justice Department did request surveillance permission from the FISA court earlier and were denied (request mentioned Trump's name).  They asked again in October without mentioned Trump's name and were given the go ahead.  The article also mentioned anything resulting from that investigation is classified so releasing that information is a felony. 

They also point out this isn't a criminal investigation, but related to intelligence gathering and national security. 

[Monkeyleg]

The Obama gang tried last June to get a warrant from a criminal court judge, but were denied. As mentioned before, they tried to get a warrant from a FISA court, which is usually easy as pie, but were denied. They then got a FISA warrant on a more limited request. The question is, for what?

Flynn's conversation with the Russian ambassador was revealed. He was a private citizen at the time of the call. How could his part of the call be recorded without a warrant? There's been a lot of stories leaked to the press that would have to have come from surveillance, and a warrant would have been needed for that surveillance.

Trump's now moved the Sessions "issue" off the table, and put Dems ondefense. But for how long?