Trump accuses Obama of tapping Trump Tower phones

[MechAg94]

Trump's now moved the Sessions "issue" off the table, and put Dems ondefense. But for how long?

And everyone who is not a Democrat cheerleader can see blindfolded that their denials are meaningless. 


IMO, it is another positive about Trump's Twitter account.  It is a very useful tool to change and drive the the media discussion rather than allow it to drive him. 

[Scout26]

This literally is Watergate 2.0.  Wiretapping the presidential campaign of the opposing party.  I foresee all the records in this being released, and perhaps a rollback of the FISA court.

Politically, this will really hurt the "resistance", and be able to paint them for the Nazis they truly are.

[Monkeyleg]

This literally is Watergate 2.0.  Wiretapping the presidential campaign of the opposing party.  I foresee all the records in this being released, and perhaps a rollback of the FISA court.

Politically, this will really hurt the "resistance", and be able to paint them for the Nazis they truly are.

In your dreams.   The Dem's are still more corrupt than the R's, and will find a way to make this go away.

[Ben]

and perhaps a rollback of the FISA court.

That would be cool, though I don't know where Trump and his advisors stand on it. They may like it when it's the goose and not the gander.

[Angel Eyes]

[Monkeyleg]

Just a little additional point: when Flynn talked to the Russian ambassador, he did so from Trump Tower.

[GigaBuist]

This literally is Watergate 2.0.

No.  Monitoring communication with Russia is not the same as breaking and entering into a political office.  Nobody in Watergate was looking for foreign intel, it wasn't approved by courts, and it wasn't "let go" for months until somebody threw a hissy fit.

It has been known since Oct 2016 that the communication between Trump Towers and Russia were being monitored.  Trump is now making an issue out of it because he has been made aware of his "wiretapping" by Mark Levin via Brietbart.  We have a president that acts not on the best information possible, but rather by what he sees on the news or finds on Brietbart.  This is only one step higher than having an Alex Jones fan in the Whitehouse.

Trump should have been aware of the wiretapping when it originally hit the news.  He should have been able to figure out WHY that happened, but if he didn't get it he should have found somebody to explain it to him during the campaign.  Once elected he certainly should have found somebody to explain to him what happened but instead he's acting upon a report by Mark f*cking Levin and assuming that's the whole truth. 

[Jocassee]

No.  Monitoring communication with Russia is not the same as breaking and entering into a political office.  Nobody in Watergate was looking for foreign intel, it wasn't approved by courts, and it wasn't "let go" for months until somebody threw a hissy fit.

It has been known since Oct 2016 that the communication between Trump Towers and Russia were being monitored.  Trump is now making an issue out of it because he has been made aware of his "wiretapping" by Mark Levin via Brietbart.  We have a president that acts not on the best information possible, but rather by what he sees on the news or finds on Brietbart.  This is only one step higher than having an Alex Jones fan in the Whitehouse.

Trump should have been aware of the wiretapping when it originally hit the news.  He should have been able to figure out WHY that happened, but if he didn't get it he should have found somebody to explain it to him during the campaign.  Once elected he certainly should have found somebody to explain to him what happened but instead he's acting upon a report by Mark f*cking Levin and assuming that's the whole truth. 

But if he hadn't tweeted it, we wouldn't have the delicious, frantic denials of things that were essentially common knowledge two months ago.

And that my friend is worth the price of admission.

[MechAg94]

Also, if he had tweeted about it earlier, it likely would have been buried under a lot of other news.  Sometimes it is good to pick the right time to publicize things like that.  Weren't the first comments about all this about Trump not having proof? 

[Monkeyleg]

The Trump administration has been plagued since the election with leaks, some serious. Now we know where the leaks came from, and who engineered them.

I think Trump was mad about Sessions' recusal, and decided to put into tweets what he already knew. I think only a very few people had connected the dots and realized that the Obama intelligence community was wiretapping the Trump team, even though news stories made that pretty clear. Now we have a huge story that really hurts the Dem's.

This should remain a big story for a long time. It has more sexiness than Watergate. To keep it alive, though, they're going to need a real investigation by Congress or, better yet, by the Justice Department. If the latter, Sessions' recusal could be a sticking point.

[DittoHead]

I think only a very few people had connected the dots and realized that the Obama intelligence community was wiretapping the Trump team

So much of this story is still based on those anonymous sources that no one trusts. When it first came out that Trump associates were under investigation for ties to Russia it was all "fake news" but now it's not anymore? I'll wait for some real evidence to be released - which Trump should have the power to do pretty easily. I'd love to see what justification they brought to the FISA court.

[Monkeyleg]

So much of this story is still based on those anonymous sources that no one trusts. When it first came out that Trump associates were under investigation for ties to Russia it was all "fake news" but now it's not anymore? I'll wait for some real evidence to be released - which Trump should have the power to do pretty easily. I'd love to see what justification they brought to the FISA court.

Flynn made the call to the Ruskie ambassador from Trump tower. How did anyone get the transcript of the call unless it had been tapped?

[BobR]

Flynn made the call to the Ruskie ambassador from Trump tower. How did anyone get the transcript of the call unless it had been tapped?

Well, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that the Rooski was the target of that particular surveillance. I still believe the previous administration did play dirty and the tap that Trump tweeted about was real and they were trying to find something, anything, to help keep him from being elected. I think they knew HRC was in deep kimchee with her election prospects. I will wear the hat proudly. 

bob

[DittoHead]

Flynn made the call to the Ruskie ambassador from Trump tower. How did anyone get the transcript of the call unless it had been tapped?

It's the Russian ambassador, if he's under surveillance (which I would assume) then they don't need to tap Trump Tower to hear that conversation.

Anyway this isn't a case where we should need to rely on anonymous sources. Trump is in charge of the department that has all of this information and he should be able to provide some evidence to back it up. Instead he took to twitter and then the next day his spokesman said they didn't want to talk about it anymore.

[Ron]

Trumps tweets are always to establish HIS narrative. They are about as truthful as the common fare the mainstream media peddles.

I wouldn't be surprised if this particular tweet was a form of "anchoring" or "pre-suasion". Using his bully pulpit to prepare the ground for the narrative he is going to try and establish in the coming days/weeks ahead.

While I have to agree he looks and sounds dumb much of the time and says cringe worthy things on occasion; I just don't see how a big dummy can build, lose and rebuild a fortune, become a media star, get the Republican nomination for President and then win the general election by employing a better strategy than all the professional politicians on both sides of the aisle.

Trying to convince the public that Trump is a Russian puppet when everything Trump proposes is pure USA nationalism seems like an odd strategy. Up to this point I've seen zero evidence of any impropriety. Congresspersons and public officials, R's and D's alike, are all in constant communication with Russian officials. The whole story is sort of weird. Trump is a Russian stooge who is being blackmailed into making America great again?  

[Perd Hapley]

Trying to convince the public that Trump is a Russian puppet when everything Trump proposes is pure USA nationalism seems like an odd strategy. Up to this point I've seen zero evidence of any impropriety. Congresspersons and public officials, R's and D's alike, are all in constant communication with Russian officials. The whole story is sort of weird. Trump is a Russian stooge who is being blackmailed into making America great again? 

Nearly any accusation from the Left is their projecting their faults onto their enemies. Anyone with eyes can see which side of the aisle is more friendly to Moscow.

[230RN]

And that my friend is worth the price of admission.

<grin> True, true.

I suspect President Trump directed one of his (possibly private) agencies to clean out the comm lines in Trump Tower and thereby uncovered the actual proof of what was known previously.

I mean, like, y'know, it's his freakin' building.

A really devious mind might even suspect that he actually approved the surreptitious tapping by his opposition.  But you'd have to have a really devious mind to think that.  :D

"And that, my friend, is worth the price of admission."

Terry, 230RN

[MechAg94]

Well, it isn't outside the realm of possibility that the Rooski was the target of that particular surveillance. I still believe the previous administration did play dirty and the tap that Trump tweeted about was real and they were trying to find something, anything, to help keep him from being elected. I think they knew HRC was in deep kimchee with her election prospects. I will wear the hat proudly. 

bob

From what I understand, the results of the foreign intelligence wire tapping are classified so it was still a crime on someone's part to release the transcript of the call with Flynn.  That is the real crime of that story that some people are actively trying to ignore. 

[BobR]

^^^^

Exactly, and once it is known there is an American on the line all Constitutional protections apply. I hate to sound like Sean Hannity or Mark Levin but I think the ability to share information across all the intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections was done just so that it would encourage more leaks. If you have 17x the number of people who have access to the information it will be at least 17x harder to pin down the source, not impossible but much harder. IMO.

bob

[MechAg94]

It's the Russian ambassador, if he's under surveillance (which I would assume) then they don't need to tap Trump Tower to hear that conversation.

Anyway this isn't a case where we should need to rely on anonymous sources. Trump is in charge of the department that has all of this information and he should be able to provide some evidence to back it up. Instead he took to twitter and then the next day his spokesman said they didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Exactly what proof are you expecting Trump throw out there?  Most of that stuff is probably classified.  

The tweets accomplished their purpose.  They put out the story of the Obama administration wire tapping the Presidential candidate of the opposition party during an election.  It also put the story out there in a way that forced the anti-Trump media to talk about it if only to report on the Democrat denials.  Mission accomplished.  

It had the added benefit of taking the Secretary Sessions character assassination off the media front page.  

[Ron]

It's the Russian ambassador, if he's under surveillance (which I would assume) then they don't need to tap Trump Tower to hear that conversation.

Anyway this isn't a case where we should need to rely on anonymous sources. Trump is in charge of the department that has all of this information and he should be able to provide some evidence to back it up. Instead he took to twitter and then the next day his spokesman said they didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Trump is President of the United States.

As such he is the head of a government that hates, despises and is actively working to undermine his every move.

While I understand and empathize with some of your stances and opinions on how things should be...

I find myself looking at the realities on the ground as well as acknowledging all the behind the scenes stuff I don't know and I have to say, Trump is doing a way better job than I could have imagined UNDER THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

Do I have a soft spot for Ron and Rand Paul libertarian conservatism? You betcha.

The reason Ron or Rand isn't President is because what they propose isn't in the realm of the possible IMHO.

As a DittoHead I would think you would be encouraged by much of what has occurred. El Rushbo has got with the program yet you seem to be continually firing your artillery to the right.

Like you, we all want to see a more constitutional republic way of running our government. Unfortunately, there is the congress and the voting public who don't agree with our prescription.

What would you have Trump do differently in dealing with enemies within as well as enemies without?      

[DittoHead]

Exactly what proof are you expecting Trump throw out there?  Most of that stuff is probably classified.  

The FISA application would be a great place to start and if it's classified then maybe he shouldn't be tweeting about it?
He also has the authority to declassify that stuff and if the investigation was without merit, just politically motivated, then releasing that information shouldn't be a problem. If it's an ongoing investigation then, again, he shouldn't be tweeting about it. He is in a rather unique position to provide evidence of these claims, yet he has not.

El Rushbo has got with the program yet you seem to be continually firing your artillery to the right.   

Yeah, I never hopped onto the Trump train and likely never will. I think he will (at best) make short term gains in exchange for long term disaster. I wouldn't be disappointed at all to see him retire down to Mar-a-Lago to spend the rest of his days golfing and have Pence take his place.

[MechAg94]

The FISA application would be a great place to start and if it's classified then maybe he shouldn't be tweeting about it?
He also has the authority to declassify that stuff and if the investigation was without merit, just politically motivated, then releasing that information shouldn't be a problem. If it's an ongoing investigation then, again, he shouldn't be tweeting about it. He is in a rather unique position to provide evidence of these claims, yet he has not.

Given all the battles he is fighting, I am not going to gripe about no one laying evidence in front of me.  I don't really have a trust issue when it comes to Trump.  What he said is being backed up by a bunch of media sources I have some trust with so that is good enough for me at this time.  If it comes to the point of criminal charges against someone, then there will be evidence put forth. 

[Monkeyleg]

The FISA application would be a great place to start and if it's classified then maybe he shouldn't be tweeting about it?
He also has the authority to declassify that stuff and if the investigation was without merit, just politically motivated, then releasing that information shouldn't be a problem. If it's an ongoing investigation then, again, he shouldn't be tweeting about it. He is in a rather unique position to provide evidence of these claims, yet he has not.

It really doesn't matter if he has the proof. He took the Dem's demands for an investigation into a Russian scandal that never existed, and turned it on them. The media, in an effort to smear Trump, reported that there were wiretaps and such. Now that Trump has launched these charges, the media is saying, "what taps?" He has them running trying to cover for Obama. It can't be both. The left has to decide if they want this to continue.

This wouldn't be the first time Trump outsmarted themat their own game.

[DittoHead]

It really doesn't matter if he has the proof.

Does it even matter if it's true then?