Trump accuses Obama of tapping Trump Tower phones

[Scout26]

IIRC, The President has the ultimate authority on what is, or is not (or can be) declassified.

[Ron]

Does it even matter if it's true then?

What makes you think you know the truth about anything regarding our government?

It's lies, manipulation and deceit from the top all the way down and it always has been. Trump has just forced it all out into the open and he plays their game as good or better than them.

If the mob knew the truth I suspect it would get ugly fast ...

[DittoHead]

What makes you think you know the truth about anything regarding our government?

If you'll recall, I'm the one looking for evidence. 

It's lies, manipulation and deceit from the top all the way down and it always has been. Trump has just forced it all out into the open and he plays their game as good or better than them.

If "playing the game" means lying then I'm not going to be thrilled about the president doing a better job at it. If the media is putting fake news out there it does not give the president permission to put fake news out there, even if it changes the narrative, gets some bad headlines pushed out of the news cycle, or makes the democrats look bad. The president should be held to a higher standard than buzzfeed!

[Hawkmoon]

At this point, it seems even the Democrats have conceded that, yes, the phones were tapped at Trump Tower during the election campaign. The only real question remaining is whether or not Obama ordered it or knew about it.

[Monkeyleg]

At this point, it seems even the Democrats have conceded that, yes, the phones were tapped at Trump Tower during the election campaign. The only real question remaining is whether or not Obama ordered it or knew about it.

I've read some suggestions that Loretta Lynch may be the fall guy (er, woman) for this.

[MechAg94]

Does it even matter if it's true then?

I think as early as Saturday evening or Sunday, there were former Obama administration people putting out statements saying Obama himself never authorized anything and no one ever broke the law.  They conceded the existence of the surveillance pretty quickly.  The questions on proof continued though.

Yesterday I heard someone found an archived headline or article from the New York Times from just a couple weeks ago stating there was surveillance. 

[DittoHead]

Yesterday I heard someone found an archived headline or article from the New York Times from just a couple weeks ago stating there was surveillance. 

I'm pretty sure that's this article that says:

Mr. Manafort has done business in Ukraine and Russia. Some of his contacts there were under surveillance by the National Security Agency for suspected links to Russia’s Federal Security Service, one of the officials said.

It does say there was surveillance, but it doesn't say any Trump associates were the targets or anything about Trump tower.

[Scout26]

I'm pretty sure that's this article that says:It does say there was surveillance, but it doesn't say any Trump associates were the targets or anything about Trump tower.

Perzactly.   The implied statement being "We were spying on/wiretapping/listening in on/intercepting/etc.  the calls made by the Russians.   Now, it has come out that they were wiretapping Trump Tower, which is a fish of entirely different plumage.

And yes, it is like Watergate.  Wiretapping the phones of political opponents crosses that line.  


Which explains the constant implication of "Russia hacked the election".  Since they couldn't show any collusion between Trump (et al) and Russia, they could only imply it. and since Hillary losing was a complete surprise the hacking story actually gained traction among the low-information voters/disaffected lefties.  Plus the Goebbels effect of repeating the lie, to discredit and delegitimize the Trump administration.

Now it's blowing up in their face.   And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.  This will merely serve to drive more voters to Trump (if they can fix the abortion of a Healthcare "replacement" bill)....

[Ron]

If you'll recall, I'm the one looking for evidence.  ???If "playing the game" means lying then I'm not going to be thrilled about the president doing a better job at it. If the media is putting fake news out there it does not give the president permission to put fake news out there, even if it changes the narrative, gets some bad headlines pushed out of the news cycle, or makes the democrats look bad. The president should be held to a higher standard than buzzfeed!

I feel your pain.

The days of us having leaders of high moral character (if there was ever a day like that) are long behind us I've concluded.

We could have an anti-hero or Hillary, those are our choices.

I feel Trump is probably less of an evil than the "lesser of two evils" Dole, McCain or Romney were, in the big scheme of things.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/23/donald-trump-first-president-turn-postmodernism/

[Monkeyleg]

I feel your pain.

The days of us having leaders of high moral character (if there was ever a day like that) are long behind us I've concluded.

We could have an anti-hero or Hillary, those are our choices.

I feel Trump is probably less of an evil than the "lesser of two evils" Dole, McCain or Romney were, in the big scheme of things.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/23/donald-trump-first-president-turn-postmodernism/

I was 22 when Watergate started, and I remember it clearly. If this were true, it would be much bigger than Watergate. I also remember the treatment of Nixon by the press, and it was nothing like what Trump is getting now. Everyone here knows that the treatment of Trump has been unlike that given to any other president or candidate for president. And much of the effort to undermine him is organized and coming from a powerful bunch.

Under these circumstances, I think it's pretty reasonable for Trump to take extraordinary measures. He's six weeks into his presidency and he still doesn't have all of his cabinet confirmed, much less the 500+ undersecretaries and such. His re-issue of his immigration executive order is going to be thwarted by another liberal judge. Obamacare reform is going to stall. I can think of no president who's faced this much stonewalling.

Any of the other primary candidates would have been crushed by now. Trump has spent his whole life in the media, good or bad. He knows how to use it, better than any politician. Even if he doesn't know right now for a fact that Trump Tower was bugged (the NY Times story is true or not true and, if true, Trump Tower was bugged), it's still a smart move for him to turn the barrel around to face his enemy.

[Perd Hapley]

How is Trump lying when he says the White House bugged Trump Tower? Why is that dishonest?

[Perd Hapley]

He's six weeks into his presidency and he still doesn't have all of his cabinet confirmed, much less the 500+ undersecretaries and such.

I'm old enough to remember when they criticized Trump for not appointing Cabinet nominees quickly enough.

[Monkeyleg]

His latest nominee-in-waiting-infinitum is the deputy attorney general. Think that might be because Sessions recused himself from any investigation into the Trump campaign, and the Dem's want to make sure that if the DOJ looks into Obamagate, they want an Obama loyalist running the show? The guy served on the Watergate commission, was appointed by GW, and retained by Obama. Now the Dem's have criticism of him.

[DittoHead]

I feel Trump is probably less of an evil than the "lesser of two evils" Dole, McCain or Romney were, in the big scheme of things.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/23/donald-trump-first-president-turn-postmodernism/

I like the federalist article, that's an interesting way to look at it. You might be right about Trump being preferable to those other guys, I don't think I would have very much argument otherwise. If Trump acted like he does but was perfect on policy I could probably get behind him. He is not though and his "style" for lack of a better word does not sit well with me at all. There are small government conservatives out there that actually base their positions on principles, have had those principals/positions for more than a single election, and don't act like buffoons. We even had one or two running in the primaries...

Any of the other primary candidates would have been crushed by now.

I'm not as convinced of that, but it's pretty hard to play out a hypothetical that far with any amount of certainty. They didn't have much success against Trump and the media frenzy surrounding him, I will admit that, so maybe they wouldn't have fared any better had things turned out differently.

the NY Times story is true or not true and, if true, Trump Tower was bugged

How do you get that out of the NYT article? Are you looking at a different one than I linked?

[Monkeyleg]

I'm not as convinced of that, but it's pretty hard to play out a hypothetical that far with any amount of certainty. They didn't have much success against Trump and the media frenzy surrounding him, I will admit that, so maybe they wouldn't have fared any better had things turned out differently.

If they couldn't take down Trump during the primaries, how well do you think they'd be dealing with the Dem's and the media now? Any one of them would be getting the same treatment. It would have been the Russians helping John Kasich of all people.

As for the NYT, I'm lumping them in with other media reports that point to the bugging being at Trump Tower.

[p12]

It really doesn't matter if he has the proof. He took the Dem's demands for an investigation into a Russian scandal that never existed, and turned it on them. The media, in an effort to smear Trump, reported that there were wiretaps and such. Now that Trump has launched these charges, the media is saying, "what taps?" He has them running trying to cover for Obama. It can't be both. The left has to decide if they want this to continue.

This wouldn't be the first time Trump outsmarted themat their own game.

And the kicker is he did it with a freaking tweet. How frail is the dem/liberal foundation that a freaking tweet can do that much. These people can't put their house of cards back together faster that Trump is blowing it down. With tweets! I heard Rush talking about the media complaining that they can't keep up with Trump. They're having to work too hard and work too long of hours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scout26]

Trump is truly turning out to be the Teflon President.  Everything the left and MSM does to "take him down" only serves to endear Trumps supporters to him even more and also shows how weak and ineffectual they have become.   

And I do hope they continue.  The more they howl and scream, the more they show their weaknesses...

[DittoHead]

In his recent interview with the President, Tucker Carlson asked him about the wiretapping accusations and Trump is certainly in no hurry to share his evidence with us if he has any.

"Let's see whether or not I proved it,” Trump said. “You looked at some proof. I mean, let's see whether or not I prove it. I just don't choose to do it right now. … I think we have some very good stuff, and we're in the process of putting it together, and I think it's going to be very demonstrative."

He doesn't seem to be in any hurry to share it with congress either:

"We don’t have any evidence that took place...I don’t think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower."

"based on the information available to us, we see no indications that Trump Tower was the subject of surveillance by any element of the United States government either before or after Election Day 2016."

Trump does claim to have something to submit to them and that "very interesting items" will come out in the next few weeks but I suspect this is another one of those things he talks big on and then just falls by the wayside, forgotten by most. Comey is testifying next week though so something interesting could come out of that I guess.

Trump also felt it was important to clarify now:

“Don't forget, when I say 'wiretapping,' those words were in quotes. That really covers, because wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff. But that really covers surveillance and many other things. And nobody ever talks about the fact that it was in quotes, but that's a very important thing.”

[KD5NRH]

In his recent interview with the President, Tucker Carlson asked him about the wiretapping accusations and Trump is certainly in no hurry to share his evidence with us if he has any.

Of course not; never turn over the evidence early, and that way your opponents have to (try to) think fast to (try to) explain it away.  Keeping them rushed makes mistakes more likely.

[mellestad]

I wouldn't say he's the Teflon President. If he was, his approval ratings wouldn't be dropping this early.

The "Tappergate" Tweets are one of the first things that's sticking with him though. Usually his admin just ignores things until they go away but I think too many people are involved now for this one to just go away. You're already seeing them roll back accusations and start to say they didn't mean what they said literally.

But who knows, maybe they've got something incriminating and it's just being held close to the vest by some super-secret alternative spy organization and it's going to be a bombshell.

I doubt that, though. Sean Spicer reminds me more of Baghdad Bob every day. I imagine he regrets taking that job intensely.

Some of the things Trump is trying to do are good in my eyes, and some are terrible--but his inability to control himself is going to ruin what positive impact he may have. It's hard not to be ashamed of him when he acts that way.

We'll see, though. At least he gives the press something to do.

[Monkeyleg]

It's not an inability to control himself. Study his "crazy" acts, and you'll find he was crazy like a fox.

[MechAg94]

Trump also felt it was important to clarify now:

Exactly what do you think wiretapping means these days?  The authorities haven't had to physically tap wires in years.  If Trump said someone was reading his emails, would you go looking for envelopes that were opened and resealed? 

[DittoHead]

I think it means listening to his phone calls.

I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!

[Ron]

Either Obama ordered it or his administration allowed it to happen. Tomato tomato. 

[Monkeyleg]

Either Obama ordered it or his administration allowed it to happen. Tomato tomato. 

Or there was never an investigation of Trump's campaign staff, and the media was lying. It can't be both.