Author Topic: American Health Care Act  (Read 9407 times)

Ron

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2017, 04:32:16 PM »
And therein lies the problem.  The government shouldn't be trying to make everyone have health insurance.  The government should set the standards and laws for everyone to follow and let the people decide what they want.
That's not what the electorate wants though.

Whether we like it or not we are subject to the oligarchy and them trying to appease the mob.

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For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

RocketMan

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2017, 05:23:01 PM »
It's absolute junk.  It's Obamacare with a few minor tweaks.  Everything that was in Obamacare that was offensive or drove up the cost of insurance and deductibles is still in there.  Insurance premiums are going to continue their double-digit increases every year, and deductibles will continue rising.
It's completely obvious to even the weak minded, lame and lazy that The Stupid Party® never had any intention of repealing Obamacare.
What's worse is that Trump will go along with it.

State lines are in the works for part two or three. This is just part one of the plan.

Uh, huh.  Sure.  I've got a bridge for sale if anyone is interested.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Ron

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2017, 05:25:13 PM »
It's absolute junk.  It's Obamacare with a few minor tweaks.  Everything that was in Obamacare that was offensive or drove up the cost of insurance and deductibles is still in there.  Insurance premiums are going to continue their double-digit increases every year, and deductibles will continue rising.
It's completely obvious to even the weak minded, lame and lazy that The Stupid Party® never had any intention of repealing Obamacare.
What's worse is that Trump will go along with it.

Uh, huh.  Sure.

My first clue was that they were "working" on the repeal/replacement even though they had already sent a repeal/replacement to Obama.

The Republicans are the bigger problem than the Democrats right now. I think they are actually pulling Trump to the left on this issue.   

We'll get a marginally better replacement at best.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

RocketMan

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2017, 05:26:22 PM »
My first clue was that they were"working" on the repeal/replacement even though they had already sent a repeal/replacement to Obama.

They Republicans are the bigger problem than the Democrats right now. 

Agreed.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Ron

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For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

RocketMan

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2017, 02:22:19 AM »
When the Republicans pass this American Health Care Act piece of excrement, they will effectively hand the House and Senate to the Democrats.  They will have proven once again that there is not a dime's worth of difference between the GOP leadership and the Democrats.
The Republican base will see that their suspicions have been accurate all along, that "GOP" really means "Grand Old Prevaricators".  The Republican lies have been so blatant and obvious this time around that they have guaranteed their fall to minority status during he next two election cycles.  The base will simply not turn out for them any more.
There has been much post-election speculation among the punditry that the Democrat party is on it's death bed.  If it ever was, it is not now. The Republicans just provided CPR and saved the patient with Obamacare Lite.

When Trump signs this bill, (and make no mistake, he will sign it) he becomes a one term president.  There is no way in hell he will be elected to a second term.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

dogmush

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2017, 02:33:09 AM »
I think it would be a mistake to think that the majority of the "GOP Base" (whatever that is)is quite as small gov/conservative as the majority of this board.

I know a LOT of hard core GOP partisan voters that agreed that healthcare should be provided (or at least guided and subsidized) by the fed.gov.  Their issue with O-care wasn't the concept, but the implementation.

I suspect many of them will be happier with this incarnation, and rather than being upset will see this as a campaign promise that was actually fulfilled.  I also expect the GOP lawmakers to hide or put off any drastic downsides until after the next election to allow true believers to continue deluding themselves.

charby

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2017, 08:30:43 AM »
You haven't been in the job market for awhile, have you? There are fewer and fewer employers every day who offer health insurance.

I went new job hunting 24-18 months ago, every job posting that fit my education or experience had health insurance as a benefit. Public and private sector.

Still do a bit of looking, never know if there is a better offer, but everyone still offers health insurance. Usually paid at 90% of the premium.
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Scout26

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »
1.  The ACA is hereby repealed.

2.  Healthcare and Insurance costs are fully deductible.  (Until we pass the Flat Tax.)

3.  Health Insurance can be purchased across state lines.




Why is that so hard?
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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Fly320s

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2017, 04:00:31 PM »
Perfect.  Wrap it up, I'll take it.
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Ben

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2017, 04:29:16 PM »
1.  The ACA is hereby repealed.

2.  Healthcare and Insurance costs are fully deductible.  (Until we pass the Flat Tax.)

3.  Health Insurance can be purchased across state lines.




Why is that so hard?

Add a quadrupling of the annual HSA contribution and I'll bite.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Scout26

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2017, 04:36:03 PM »
Add a quadrupling of the annual HSA contribution and I'll bite.

Ummm, that would be a "healthcare cost" that would be fully deductible... ;)
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
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Ben

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2017, 04:44:17 PM »
Ummm, that would be a "healthcare cost" that would be fully deductible... ;)

https://youtu.be/MOThcFqoMT0?t=328
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Pb

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2017, 10:56:30 AM »
1.  The ACA is hereby repealed.

2.  Healthcare and Insurance costs are fully deductible.  (Until we pass the Flat Tax.)

3.  Health Insurance can be purchased across state lines.


Why is that so hard?

4. Patients who pay their bills with cash must be charged by the provider at the cheapest rate they bill insurance for the same care.

If you don't have insurance hospitals DOUBLE your bill versus patients with insurance.  It is sickening.

DittoHead

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2017, 11:25:53 AM »
4. Patients who pay their bills with cash must be charged by the provider at the cheapest rate they bill insurance for the same care.

If you don't have insurance hospitals DOUBLE your bill versus patients with insurance.  It is sickening.
I've heard the exact opposite - you can negotiate a better price paying cash vs having them deal with insurance. Maybe that's only if you're dealing with smaller clinic or a specific doctor though? I have no personal experience doing so.
Anyway if you have to mandate what they charge in a specific situation, there's probably a regulation or requirement elsewhere in the system that needs addressing.
Treat the root cause, not the symptom.

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Ben

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2017, 11:37:53 AM »
I've heard the exact opposite - you can negotiate a better price paying cash vs having them deal with insurance. Maybe that's only if you're dealing with smaller clinic or a specific doctor though?

That's also what I heard. My only experience is when the ophthalmologist stopped taking my insurance, they offered me a 20% discount to pay up front. A previous dentist also offered me a discount on the "above what my crappy dental insurance would pay*" amount to replace an old filling. I think it was 10% or something.

* Tangent: I no longer have dental insurance. Doing the math for my healthy mouth, twice a year preventative care via cash is actually cheaper than the twice a year "free" cleanings via insurance. If I do run into a problem, or need a filling replaced or whatever, paying cash is probably a wash to what little the insurance would pay for that kind of stuff. For dental insurance that covers everything, I think cash is probably cheaper. Then (given gov gets its act together on health care deductions) paying out of the HSA and deducting it is probably even more of a bonus.

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Scout26

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2017, 02:46:36 PM »
That's also what I heard. My only experience is when the ophthalmologist stopped taking my insurance, they offered me a 20% discount to pay up front. A previous dentist also offered me a discount on the "above what my crappy dental insurance would pay*" amount to replace an old filling. I think it was 10% or something.

* Tangent: I no longer have dental insurance. Doing the math for my healthy mouth, twice a year preventative care via cash is actually cheaper than the twice a year "free" cleanings via insurance. If I do run into a problem, or need a filling replaced or whatever, paying cash is probably a wash to what little the insurance would pay for that kind of stuff. For dental insurance that covers everything, I think cash is probably cheaper. Then (given gov gets its act together on health care deductions) paying out of the HSA and deducting it is probably even more of a bonus.

I do the same thing.  Only my plan, should there ever be a problem is head over to a local Dental School and let some of the Almost-Doctors get in some practice on my mouth.  It's usually free or a nominal charge for "parts". 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Firethorn

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2017, 03:00:35 PM »
I've heard the exact opposite - you can negotiate a better price paying cash vs having them deal with insurance. Maybe that's only if you're dealing with smaller clinic or a specific doctor though? I have no personal experience doing so.

Disclaimer:  Uncle Sam has covered me since I was a young adult under Tricare.  My brother, though, spent some time without insurance.

It is indeed if you're working with a smaller clinic or a specific doctor that you can often negotiate the lower rates with if you pay cash up front.  Many, however, won't even see if you if you don't have insurance or pay up front.  My brother did manage to negotiate deals of up to 50% off of what insurance would have ultimately paid.  Some will work with you, some won't.

Meanwhile, hospitals and larger clinics have complex deals with insurance companies, can't figure out your bill until well after you've been discharged, and won't accept cash up front even if they could figure out an estimate for the services you are going to receive.  It's a mess.

So as long as you can stay out of the hospital, are willing to shop around and yes, haggle a bit, you can get healthcare cheaper than what insurance pays.

The problem is what happens when you end up in a hospital anyways, don't have negotiating power until you're threatening bankruptcy, and the hospital charging you double of their average insurance payout is the best you can hope for.

Quote
Anyway if you have to mandate what they charge in a specific situation, there's probably a regulation or requirement elsewhere in the system that needs addressing.
Treat the root cause, not the symptom.

I see the problem as that, unlike nearly every other industry, they're not required, by market forces if nothing else, to post prices or give estimates before providing services.   Not even hourly labor rates.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 08:21:27 PM by Firethorn »

Jim147

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2017, 03:13:32 PM »
And they don't have a money back policy if they are wrong. You just keep getting to pay until they run enough test to figure it out, you run out of money or die.
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Pb

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2017, 05:03:49 PM »
I've heard the exact opposite - you can negotiate a better price paying cash vs having them deal with insurance. Maybe that's only if you're dealing with smaller clinic or a specific doctor though? I have no personal experience doing so.
Anyway if you have to mandate what they charge in a specific situation, there's probably a regulation or requirement elsewhere in the system that needs addressing.
Treat the root cause, not the symptom.



I'm giving my experience- when the hospital found out I did have insurance they cut the bill in HALF.  They were trying to screw anyone paying cash.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2017, 06:23:50 PM »
And they don't have a money back policy if they are wrong. You just keep getting to pay until they run enough test to figure it out, you run out of money or die.

Just about the only place where you still have to pay up even if they completely screw up. Then you get to pay some more to get their screw up fixed, if you're lucky.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Firethorn

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2017, 08:24:48 PM »
I'm giving my experience- when the hospital found out I did have insurance they cut the bill in HALF.  They were trying to screw anyone paying cash.

Well, they had to charge the rates negotiated with the insurance company once they found out who you were with.  There are some sorta-insurance programs that all they really do is get you the negotiated rates.

And even then, the insurance probably settled up for some fraction of the bill.

Just about the only place where you still have to pay up even if they completely screw up. Then you get to pay some more to get their screw up fixed, if you're lucky.

Yeah, you pretty much have to get them for outright malpractice.  If they misdiagnose you and do something not necessary, but not really harmful, you still have to pay up.  If it's actively harmful, then they might have to pay to fix that.

Hawkmoon

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2017, 09:50:55 PM »
1.  The ACA is hereby repealed.

2.  Healthcare and Insurance costs are fully deductible.  (Until we pass the Flat Tax.)

3.  Health Insurance can be purchased across state lines.




Why is that so hard?

I like it. How do we sell it to Paul Ryan RINO?
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HankB

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2017, 08:12:38 AM »
Note to the GOP, aka The Stupid PartyTM:

The people who want/get free stuff (including health care) won't vote for you no matter WHAT you do.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: American Health Care Act
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2017, 08:15:45 AM »
I like it. HowWho do we sell it to Paul Ryan RINO to?

FTFY.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams