Author Topic: We're doomed.  (Read 21844 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 12:26:47 PM »

*Does anyone else remember calling "time" on the telephone, pre-NIST on the Interwebz? I wonder if that even exists anymore.


I've very rarely called for the time, but I used to call the KMOX weather hot-line multiple times a day. I had the number memorized, which was good, as I was literally dialing the number on a rotary phone. That was in the before time.

What is a NIST?
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K Frame

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 12:36:35 PM »
National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Their big campus is in Maryland along 270 not far outside of DC.
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MechAg94

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2017, 12:44:31 PM »
My parents still have a rotary phone on the wall they had when I was a kid.  Works too.  It has an ear piece on a cord and you talk into a speaker hard mounted on the phone.  My nieces didn't think it actually worked until I answered the phone on it one day when I was there.  They thought I was kidding at first. 
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RevDisk

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2017, 12:46:33 PM »
Also, there's some confusion in the mix. "Analog clocks" is generally referring to clocks that have 1 through 12 in a circle. Most "analog" clocks these days are actually electronic, unless they are antiques. The exception being high end watches, primarily as a fashion statement. You can make a numeric clock that runs off gears and springs, people do for art projects on a regular basis.

What I'm trying and failing to understand is why folks think the 1 through 12 in a circle is a superior method of displaying the time rather than in a straight numeric fashion, if they both use the same internals. Which, they mostly do. Except for niche antique or fashion circumstances. Is that the argument?

Or is it that clockwork gear and spring clocks are superior? By what metric?
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RevDisk

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2017, 12:51:36 PM »

I've very rarely called for the time, but I used to call the KMOX weather hot-line multiple times a day. I had the number memorized, which was good, as I was literally dialing the number on a rotary phone. That was in the before time.

What is a NIST?

NIST does a bunch of stuff, but they also control time. Quite literally. Though they share that control with Paris. NIST runs the master clocks for the entire US, and most of the world. GPS relies on NIST time. All of modern technology depends on time, and anyone with a brain gets their time using NTP or GPS.

Proper bunch of geeks, too. They were kind enough let me play around with some of their quantum engineering equipment. Absolutely loved seeing their single photon detector rig. Life changing experience, right there.
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K Frame

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2017, 12:53:53 PM »
My parents still have a rotary phone on the wall they had when I was a kid.  Works too.  It has an ear piece on a cord and you talk into a speaker hard mounted on the phone.  My nieces didn't think it actually worked until I answered the phone on it one day when I was there.  They thought I was kidding at first. 



So.....

A candlestick phone?

I have a reproduction one of those with the rotary dial on it. Always wanted the real thing, but they have gotten to be SO expensive.
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K Frame

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2017, 12:55:54 PM »
Also, there's some confusion in the mix. "Analog clocks" is generally referring to clocks that have 1 through 12 in a circle. Most "analog" clocks these days are actually electronic, unless they are antiques. The exception being high end watches, primarily as a fashion statement. You can make a numeric clock that runs off gears and springs, people do for art projects on a regular basis.

What I'm trying and failing to understand is why folks think the 1 through 12 in a circle is a superior method of displaying the time rather than in a straight numeric fashion, if they both use the same internals. Which, they mostly do. Except for niche antique or fashion circumstances. Is that the argument?

Or is it that clockwork gear and spring clocks are superior? By what metric?



I don't think that anyone is arguing that at all.

What the original statement said is that kids these days are increasing unable to tell time based on looking at a traditional clock with hands -- an analog clock.

Is that a good thing, a bad thing, or just a thing?

Who knows.


And, actually, looking through this thread, I'm not seeing much if any confusion about the terms digital vs analog. It looks to me as if everyone has used the terms properly, and understands how they're being used.

No one is arguing that most analog clocks these days are run with batteries using electronic drive mechanisms. All of the working analog clocks in my house (3 or 4 of them) have electronic movements.

The analog clocks in my house what have mechanical movements don't work because they need to be serviced.

And certainly no one at all is arguing that a wind up clock is somehow superior to an electronic one, be it digital OR analog display.

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HeroHog

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2017, 01:17:31 PM »
When my last wristwatch died we were down to all digital clocks in the house and I was fine with that. I even decided that seeing as I "lived a life of leisure" now I could live without a watch and just use my iPhone. I made it a few months before giving in and ordering a cheap watch off Amazon!

I ordered this cheap ($11.99!!!) but surprisingly nice and big watch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X66BZ6I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Japanese quartz movement with analog display
Protective glass crystal dial window
Silver stainless steel case and band
3ATM water resistant for swimming (neither diving nor press button under water.)
Warranty: 2-Year Amazon.com Warranty provided by Asurion, instead of the manufacturer.

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dogmush

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2017, 01:22:03 PM »
My wristwatch updates it's time and position from GPS satellites as well as the atomic clock's HF (if in range) and is solar powered.  It tells me the time with hands that move in a circle and point at the numbers 1-12.

Is it old fashioned or not?  I don't know which side I'm on.

K Frame

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2017, 01:26:18 PM »
I got out of wearing a wrist watch years ago.
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HeroHog

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2017, 01:27:28 PM »
Slightly OT: Anyone else have issues where their body chemistry "eats" watches? I have ruined several $100+ watches due to corrosion of the base metal! Granted, it takes a few years but it sucks to have a nice watch that was gifted to you and that you really like get so pitted and corroded that you can't wear it anymore. I should get a case of these $12 specials!

My father couldn't wear any digital/electronic watches. Something about his body killed them in a week be they analog or digital display, in a week or less they would be dead. Dead as in ruined, not just drained of power! He wound up wearing self winding mechanical watches all his life.

[tinfoil]
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Ben

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2017, 01:31:40 PM »
Yes.

Just tested it. Still works. Further evidence of the onset of Alzheimer's -- I still remember the number to call for the time: S-P-R-I-N-G-S (777-4647)

That caused me to remember "time" in CA. 555-1212. I just tried it (I'm cell only) and got verizon wireless 411.

On the windups, I still run a cuckoo clock that I have to wind (well, pull the chains) twice a day. Mostly for nostalgia. It keep quite accurate time though.

Edit: Nope, had it wrong. I think 555-1212 was always information. I just looked it up and we were "popcorn". Didn't work for me. Edit again, I wasn't that wrong. "Popcorn" for AT&T, 853-1212 for the old GTE (now Verizon).
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K Frame

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2017, 01:44:10 PM »
Slightly OT: Anyone else have issues where their body chemistry "eats" watches? I have ruined several $100+ watches due to corrosion of the base metal! Granted, it takes a few years but it sucks to have a nice watch that was gifted to you and that you really like get so pitted and corroded that you can't wear it anymore. I should get a case of these $12 specials!

My father couldn't wear any digital/electronic watches. Something about his body killed them in a week be they analog or digital display, in a week or less they would be dead. Dead as in ruined, not just drained of power! He wound up wearing self winding mechanical watches all his life.

[tinfoil]

Oddly enough, my Mother had that problem.

Not all her life, but after she completed nursing school and did her initial nursing rotations, including a stint in one of the early nuclear medicine labs. After that, she could never keep a watch working for more than a few months.

Same thing, mechanical or digital, if she wore it -- wrist, pendant, or pocket -- it would be dead in short order.

A few months ago she and I were looking at stuff in her jewelry box and she still has the very nice ca 1958 ladies Bulova dress watch my father got her when they started dating.

It died several months after she got it, and only being worn a fairly limited time. She had it serviced once, trying to get it working again, but nothing the guy did would get it to work for more than a few minutes.
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mtnbkr

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 02:10:16 PM »
And certainly no one at all is arguing that a wind up clock is somehow superior to an electronic one, be it digital OR analog display.

I think hawkmoon argued both points.  Analog is better than digital, wind up is better than electric  I suppose next we'll be hearing about the benefits of horse drawn cart over those newfangled cars.  Sometimes the faux ludditism gets a bit tedious.

Chris

Ben

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 02:25:12 PM »
My wristwatch updates it's time and position from GPS satellites as well as the atomic clock's HF (if in range) and is solar powered.  It tells me the time with hands that move in a circle and point at the numbers 1-12.

Is it old fashioned or not?  I don't know which side I'm on.

My wristwatch is solar powered, tells both analog and digital time in all time zones, and is an E6B flight computer. Only I can't see any of the non-analog numbers anymore with my old eyes without a magnifying glass.   I don't know which side of the argument I'm on either.  =D



Edited for sysdexlia.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 05:39:12 PM by Ben »
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MillCreek

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2017, 02:28:16 PM »
^^^Although I have several digital wristwatches, most of them Casio atomic, I usually wear an analog face wristwatch these days.  I am wearing a Citizen solar diver right now.  I have found that I can see the position of the hands and tell the time without my glasses on.  The digital watches, I need to have my regular or reading glasses on to see the time.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2017, 02:30:02 PM »
I suppose next we'll be hearing about the benefits of horse drawn cart over those newfangled cars.  Sometimes the faux ludditism gets a bit tedious.

Chris


You'll receive my letter about that very topic in the next few  weeks. It will take some time, as I don't use the U.S. Post, with their new-fangled mail trains.
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makattak

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2017, 03:07:21 PM »
On the "we're doomed" line- most children are not taught to write or read cursive. (http://www.eonline.com/news/481596/cursive-handwriting-will-no-longer-be-taught-in-schools-because-it-s-a-big-old-waste-of-time) (Note that COMMON CORE is dictating this move.)

I know, we're just beyond such things now because computers (as the stupid "e" article claims), except:

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-put-your-laptops-away

Oh hey, look at that. Writing out notes is far better for learning and retention than typing them.

What an interesting unintended consequence.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

RoadKingLarry

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2017, 03:33:34 PM »
Heh. I remember those. I think that was the first bedroom clock my parents got me. I can't remember how good (or not) I was about keeping it wound. Thank goodness for "time"* on the telephone.  :laugh:

I don't think when growing up, we ever got any of the first "digital" clocks, which were pre-LED and just had "rolling" numbers. My parents didn't buy a digital until the LEDs came out. Though even now, my dad only uses analog clocks.


*Does anyone else remember calling "time" on the telephone, pre-NIST on the Interwebz? I wonder if that even exists anymore.

Wasn't all that long ago (15-16 years) I had a list of "time and temp" numbers I would use making test calls when installing phone systems. Quick way to make sure I could get out on a call.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2017, 04:53:50 PM »
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-put-your-laptops-away

Oh hey, look at that. Writing out notes is far better for learning and retention than typing them.

What an interesting unintended consequence.


I've found that writing things is very helpful for me. Even if I never go back to look at what I've written, just the act of writing out the info helps solidify it in my mushy skull. I didn't know it was generally true. I just thought it was my "learning style."

Among the idiocies in that insipid article, I shall take umbrage with this bit of folderol:
Quote
Let's spend that time teaching kids that there is a difference between language used to text and tweet and proper, written English. It's no longer a matter of knowing "your" vs. "you're," it's learning that it's definitely never "ur."

The language you use to text and Tweet should be proper, written English, you lackwits. Maybe if people didn't treat digital communication as some kind of spelling/grammar-free zone, they wouldn't be so stupid that they cannot handle your/you're.

Also, the idea that cursive has no relevance to everyday life makes no sense. Sure, block printing has its place, but so does cursive. I use it nearly every day. If people aren't using it, it's because it's not being taught. Or, at least, not being learned.
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KD5NRH

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2017, 05:07:50 PM »
At one time there were also shortwave and ham band radio time check channels. I'll be damned, NIST still does it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)

As much for the frequency standards as for time, most often.  Though I still think they should release a "Best of WWV" album.

K Frame

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Re:
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2017, 05:28:01 PM »
My shares in Amalgamated Buggy Whip Makers Inc are going to soar and you bitches will be sorry then!

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K Frame

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Re:
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2017, 05:30:47 PM »
Quote
And certainly no one at all is arguing that a wind up clock is somehow superior to an electronic one, be it digital OR analog display.
I think hawkmoon argued both points.  Analog is better than digital, wind up is better than electric  I suppose next we'll be hearing about the benefits of horse drawn cart over those newfangled cars.  Sometimes the faux ludditism gets a bit tedious.

Chris


I didn't really read it that way. I read it as more a Pepperidge Farms remembahs kind of post...

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Hawkmoon

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2017, 05:59:28 PM »
I think hawkmoon argued both points.  Analog is better than digital, wind up is better than electric  I suppose next we'll be hearing about the benefits of horse drawn cart over those newfangled cars.  Sometimes the faux ludditism gets a bit tedious.


I do think analog display is better than digital, for the reason I stated -- with the analog display, your brain can translate hand positions into a meaningful message faster than you can read the numerals in a digital display. The same applies to autombile dashboards. I remember when digital dashboards were first being introduced. They didn't last long (although I know the manufacturers of some brands are trying them again).

I don't think you'll ever see a digital display in a race car. Many racers use 270-degree sweep instruments, and tape off most of the dial. They leave exposed only the range where the needle should be pointing when everything is normal. Makes checking the gauges very easy -- if you see the needle, you're good to go.

As to wind-up being better than electric -- I didn't say that. I said it has the advantage of not needing batteries. It also has the disadvantage of needing to be wound every day. It's a trade-off. I own a manual wind-up wrist watch and a self-winder, neither of which I have worn for many years. I wear an inexpensive, battery-powered imitation of a GI military issue watch. I also use a pocket calculator, but I haven't thrown away my slide rules.

On the other hand, I did jettison a digital caliper in favor of a dial caliper ...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 09:27:06 PM by Hawkmoon »
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KD5NRH

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Re: We're doomed.
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2017, 06:10:06 PM »
I do think analog display is better than digital, for the reason I stated -- with the analog display, your brain can translate hand positions into a meaningful message faster than you can read the numerals in a digital display. The same applies to autombile dashboards. I remember when digital dashboards were first being introduced. They didn't last long (although I know the manufacturers of some brands are trying them again).

This is where Knight Rider had it right; you gain a lot from also having the bar graph display, particularly colored, so there's a quick-reference graphic representation of the most critical quantities.  Most of the displays when I worked in processing at the cheese plant showed the numbers off to the side of a color-coded (and configurable on the fly, so you could adjust the green range for products with varying formulations and tolerances) set of bars.  Once you figured out the equations and the adjustments for the various cranky equipment, you could punch in your initial settings, tweak the bars to what you want to see, then crank it up and watch for green across the system.