Pistol Safety

[MechAg94]

https://youtu.be/qY-el74UufE

I thought I would ask opinions here.  On the video, two Canik pistols are being reviewed.  One of them (Canik TP9SF Elite-S I think) has a safety mounted on the trigger guard that pops up and prevents the trigger from being pulled.  I have never seen that type of trigger before.  I was curious if any of you had seen it before on other pistols.  I am not sure how practical it would be.  I guess it would require some practice if you planned on using it regularly.  

I have heard people mention that some of the added firing pin safeties negatively affect the quality of the trigger pull.  This might be a little different.  I was curious what the APS opinions might be.  


You can see the lever on the bottom part of the trigger guard.  It is an ambidextrous safety that comes up and prevents the trigger from coming back to fire.  I guess it may be nothing new, but I hadn't come across it before.

[wmenorr67]

Is that the mag release right behind the trigger?

I've never seen a safety like that.

[MechAg94]

Someone I work with mentioned it was similar to the cross bolt safeties on rifles.  I guess that is true. 

[MillCreek]

Interesting video.  Turkey must have quite the arms industry, with all the different brands being exported these days.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I can see how some people would like it and I guess it could be good for someone who practiced with it.

I can nearly guarantee that myself and anyone else with short, weak fingers would hate that safety. I would like to get my hands on it to try though.

side tangent: In the opening, that guy was shooting some dirty ammo out of that thing. smokey smokey.

[230RN]

My thumb seems to want to reserve the go-nogo function for itself.
  
With the possible exception of the trigger guard safety of the M1 Garand, it gets jealous if its place in life is challenged.  For that matter even the high slide-mounted safety-decocker on the PPK and the M9 throw me a little.

Even the safety on the SKS kinda throws me.  Push-button safeties seem to be OK, but they're not my preference either.

I prefer tang safeties on long arms and  the natural position of the thumb safeties on most of my other autos.

During a range session, it doesn't matter that much, but it seems to me that in an all-out defensive situation, muscle memory would have to be overridden by mental memory, with its attendant delay.

As many people suggest, one should carry only one style of handgun for SD so that conflicting manuals of arms can't possibly confuse your fingers.

Upshot (for this old coot):  OK for the range, but if you're going to carry that roscoe, that's all you should use in practice, too.

Terry, 230RN

[HeroHog]

It does kind of remind me of the safety on a rifle I owned once. Danged if I can recall the make/model. I THINK it was a milsurp rifle...

Found it! SKS

[230RN]

That's similar to the SKS safety.  On mine, there are no indicating colored dots, though.

That SKS trigger. hammer, and sear group is a mechanical mess anyhow.. Yeah, I know...for peasants.  Yeah, I know, patent infringments.  It's still a mess.

[Jim147]

My two main carry pistols have no safety.

[dogmush]

I am often amazed at how hidebound gun enthusiasts end up being.  We (as a community) decry lack of innovation, but absolutely refuse to embrace anything less than about 100 years old. 

Firearms are incredibly simple machines, and they tend to have less then five controls (at most!).  I have no idea if that safety works well or not.  It seems kinda intuitive, and might be neat to try out.  I am certain however, that if I liked it I could train myself to use one little lever without too much difficulty.  I switch back and forth between SA 1911's, DA/SA Sigs, and Striker fires PPS/XDS with no real difficulty.  Is gun.  Aim, squeeze.  I really feel like we (as a community) imbue WAY to much importance in little, fringe details.

What do you folks do when you rent a car?

[230RN]

I am often amazed at how hidebound gun enthusiasts end up being.  We (as a community) decry lack of innovation, but absolutely refuse to embrace anything less than about 100 years old.  

Well, many of us have seen too many "innovations" that left the track. Hence caution and reservation are oftimes due.   My favorite example of this is the .22 Jet revolver and cartridge, but examples are all over the place in firearms history.  So after a while, "tried and true" becomes a watchword.. or words.  

And I'm an example of an old-timer disliking the decocking mechanism of, for instance, the PPK (or PP series).  I also dislike the switchover from DA to SA, even though that's an old design.  OK, not 100 years old, but close enough.  Some people say that's being hidebound and inflexible, but to me, it's just an impediment to accuracy even though I bought an M9 clone (Taurus) to try one out, with the full intention of buying a full-up Beretta if I liked it.  The clone was a fun gun to shoot, but then I remembered what a pain the PP(K) decocker was and decided not to.  (Talk about being an "old timer," that click when the hammer fell was very disconcerting.  Eeek.)

So when you hear the "nay-sayers" on a new product, keep in mind that many of us have bought guns and calibers which soon went obsolete and then you just have an iron pipe bolted to a 2 x 4.

Say, anyone want to buy a Gyrojet pistol?*

Or an S&W Model 53?  Comes complete with a ramrod to eject shells and a pipe wrench to turn the cylinder.  And a box of ammo with 44 rounds left.*

Or an R-51 with its weird locking system they never did get right, even after durn near 100 years.*

Terry

* No, I don't have either of these.  I was so curmudgeonly and so set in my olde pharte ways even back then that I didn't want to buy wun uh them new-fangled things.**  Just a few fer instances.  More abound.

** And I like rockets.

[griz]

I am often amazed at how hidebound gun enthusiasts end up being.  We (as a community) decry lack of innovation, but absolutely refuse to embrace anything less than about 100 years old. 

Firearms are incredibly simple machines, and they tend to have less then five controls (at most!).  I have no idea if that safety works well or not.  It seems kinda intuitive, and might be neat to try out.  I am certain however, that if I liked it I could train myself to use one little lever without too much difficulty.  I switch back and forth between SA 1911's, DA/SA Sigs, and Striker fires PPS/XDS with no real difficulty.  Is gun.  Aim, squeeze.  I really feel like we (as a community) imbue WAY to much importance in little, fringe details.

What do you folks do when you rent a car?

You are right in that gun people seem to dislike new stuff.  But mostly they just like time tested stuff that's proven to work.  To use your question as an example, I don't complain that my rental car lacks a dimmer switch on the floor, I look through the owners manual to figure out how to turn off all the useless bells and whistles I can. 

[wmenorr67]

My two main carry pistols have no safety.

This right here.

[K Frame]

"Well, many of us have seen too many "innovations" that left the track."

You mean, stuff sometimes, like, fails? That's never happened before...

What I take from dogmush's comment (I am often amazed at how hidebound gun enthusiasts end up being.  We (as a community) decry lack of innovation, but absolutely refuse to embrace anything less than about 100 years old.) are the howler monkeys of doom who still screech about the Glock and what a horrible, horrible think it is. Plastic, don't you know.

Mention metal injected molding of gun parts to them, especially their application in Godhead JM Browning's staff of righteousness, the 1911, and you'll be lucky to escape with your eardrums intact.

I don't think that the situation is nearly as grim or definitive as he paints it... if it were, Glock would be selling 3 guns a year and no one else would be making anything out of polymer, but there is a significant cadre of people for whom change is evil, and change that takes away from their beloved 1911 is downright Satanic worship kind of bad.

[MechAg94]

The advantage I see with this safety device is that it doesn't affect the mechanical parts of the trigger and firing mechanism.  It just blocks it.  You can tune the pistol up for a nice trigger pull and this doesn't affect it.  Also, if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.  It doesn't appear to get in the way if left unused and it only has a minor affect on looks.  It doesn't increase the overall width like many pistols do.

[MechAg94]

I can see how some people would like it and I guess it could be good for someone who practiced with it.

I can nearly guarantee that myself and anyone else with short, weak fingers would hate that safety. I would like to get my hands on it to try though.

side tangent: In the opening, that guy was shooting some dirty ammo out of that thing. smokey smokey.

My thumbs are a little on the short side so I don't always like thumb safeties on a lot of pistols.  The 1911 safety is located well.  I also love the decocker on certain CZ 75 models that have the decocker only.  They have it located at the rear of the slide and it rotates clockwise instead of counterclockwise which is a more natural thumb motion to me. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

My thumbs are a little on the short side so I don't always like thumb safeties on a lot of pistols.  The 1911 safety is located well.  I also love the decocker on certain CZ 75 models that have the decocker only.  They have it located at the rear of the slide and it rotates clockwise instead of counterclockwise which is a more natural thumb motion to me. 

I have trouble with some thumb safeties and decockers as well. Basically, any heavy button or leaver that's too far forward on the pistol gets troublesome fast.

[230RN]

Wmenorr67 chimed in with

Quote from: Jim147 on March 27, 2017, 11:36:03 PM
My two main carry pistols have no safety.

This right here.

Same here.  I went for five decades using SA only on my revolvers, DA very, very, very rarely.   Now it's DAO on my two defensive sidearms.

About five years ago I mentioned to my sons that I was thinking of getting a Glock and they were shocked.  I never did, but that wasn't because of the ugliness or polymer frame or anything about the principle of operation.

Oh, that reminds me, speaking of "leaving the track," whatever happened to the .45 GAP cartridge.... ?

Another example of "innovation" which went flooey.

Terry

[MechAg94]

I never saw that the 45 GAP really added any value to make it worth another cartridge. 

I don't know if that model of Canik pistol is available or what it cost.  I often keep an FNP-9 in my truck console.  I figured this one might make a good option if you are concerned about stuff getting in the trigger.  I was also thinking about recent discussions I saw about people getting things caught in the trigger when they were re-holstering the pistol.   

[lee n. field]

I was curious if any of you had seen it before on other pistols.

Nope, never.

  I am not sure how practical it would be.  I guess it would require some practice if you planned on using it regularly.   

Dead simple, in sense of purposefully keeping the gun from working.  I'm not sure I'd want fiddly safety bits down where the trigger is.  (And yes, I know about the Garand, the M-1 Carbine, the Mini-14 and the SKS.)

Required for a gov't bid, so someone (else) is going to have to learn to use this.

ou can see the lever on the bottom part of the trigger guard.

Right where Walther and H und K have put the mag release on some models.

My two main carry pistols have no safety.

Ditto. 

I am often amazed at how hidebound gun enthusiasts end up being.  We (as a community) decry lack of innovation, but absolutely refuse to embrace anything less than about 100 years old.

I don't think so.  You get to be a crusty old fart by seeing a lot of great! new! things! come, and go.  One gets cynical.

I really feel like we (as a community) imbue WAY to much importance in little, fringe details.

Oh, absolutely.   Just try to inject a little sanity into your average "9 vs. 40" discussion.  A laser tight focus on optimizing things that can't be optimized.

[230RN]

Quote
You can see the lever on the bottom part of the trigger guard.

Right where Walther and H und K have put the mag release on some models.

Gooo-ood thinking!  Didn't occur to me, so thanks for pointing that out.

And thanks for sharpening the point about how we rigid, obstructionist, it-was-good-enough-for-grandpappy old farts got to be such rigid, obstructionist, it-was-good-enough-for-grandpappy-ish old farts. :D

It is said that the lifeblood of companies is in marketing new, cutting-edge, latest-and-greatest, gotta-have-it new, new, new products.

Ooooo, shiny !

Whether the new product has actual value or utility seems to be secondary.

I keep thinking about the proverbial "NEW, IMPROVED, DISTILLED WATER" and the actual proclamation on a can of acetone I bought once: "New!  Stronger!"

Hey.  I gotta have the strongest acetone I can buy!

Terry, 230RN

[Perd Hapley]

It is said that the lifeblood of companies is in marketing new, cutting-edge, latest-and-greatest, gotta-have-it new, new, new products.

Ooooo, shiny !

Whether the new product has actual value or utility seems to be secondary.

I'm fine with that. In the long run, it's a good thing for makers and consumers to try new types of products, and the marketplace will sort out what works, or what people find useful.

Also, I want as many guns out there as possible. It lowers prices, and gives more people a reason to vote for liberty.

[230RN]

I'm fine with that. In the long run, it's a good thing for makers and consumers to try new types of products, and the marketplace will sort out what works, or what people find useful.

Also, I want as many guns out there as possible. It lowers prices, and gives more people a reason to vote for liberty.

Yes, but I prefer to have others try things out first.  Sort of like the old rule about never buying a new model car.

It used to be the dictum for making a fortune was to find a demand and fill it.  Nowadays it seems like finding a new gizmo and creating a demand for it is the operative dictum.

[lee n. field]

Yes, but I prefer to have others try things out first. 

Yep.

Aren't you glad you weren't the first to buy the new Remington R51?

[230RN]

Me, Post 10:

Say, anyone want to buy a Gyrojet pistol?

Or an S&W Model 53?  Comes complete with a ramrod to eject shells and a pipe wrench to turn the cylinder.  And a box of ammo with 44 rounds left.

Or an R-51 with its weird locking system they never did get right, even after durn near 100 years.

Yep.

Aren't you glad you weren't the first to buy the new Remington R51?

Ayup.  Like I said.