Springfield XDe

[Marnoot]

Springfield has announced their new 9mm single-stack, the XDe: http://www.springfield-armory.com/xde-features/

On the one-hand, I'm intrigued by the "low-effort slide", as while my grip-strength is sufficient for normal slides, too much monkeying with them gets my hands shaky which doesn't do great things for my accuracy. On the other, I don't do well with DA/SA actions. I love the principle: long deliberate DA pull for first shot, short clean SA for follow-up. As I learned quickly my first two days at Front Sight several years ago though, the transition in finger-action between the first two shots messed me up every time, resulting in bad accuracy during rapid fire. I managed to forget my gun one day during the training (impressive, I know), so I had to rent a Glock, which I did so much better with I turned into a DAO acolyte, though I've since moved to Springfields as the grips fit me better.

You could certainly carry it SA cocked-and-locked with the safety on and use it that way. I don't have any 1911s (heresy!) or similar SA guns though, so I've not enough experience with those to know if that would work well for me.

Also wondering if the slide has some sort of mechanism that reduces the opening effort, but closing force is still high enough for reliability, or if they just reduced spring power hoping to ride a fine line between reduced opening force and still chambering a round . . .

[dogmush]

That's the problem with Percentages.  27% less effort than what?  An XDS?  A Desert Eagle?  An SR22?  That doesn't actually tell us anything.

It's an interesting idea, and I AM a DA/SA fan.  That said I'm also a 1911 fan, and if Springfield is going to sell me a small, skinny 9mm it's probably going to be an EMP 4

[Brad Johnson]

I like it. I don't mind striker-fired handguns but I know a lot of people that like the XD's grip feel but won't get one because "... jus ain't gonna have nuthin' 'less it's got uh hammer like God and John Moses Browning intended!".

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

I should have known they'd wait to bring out the new hotness just two days after I bought last year's XDs. 

(Which is fine. I wasn't looking for that kind of gun, anyway.)

[MechAg94]

I can deal with SA/DA if the pistol is good.  I had to go back and check my email.  Yes, it does have a hammer.  I didn't notice that when I first looked.  

To me, it looks like an XDs with a Mod 2 style grip.  It does say the width is 1" so it is reasonably thin.  I was trying to look up the XDS width and their site only gives a "grip width".  Not sure what genius came up with that.  I am pretty sure my XDS 45 is wider than 1".  The trigger looks a little odd as far as the angle so I don't know what sort of trigger pull it will have or how long it will be.  One gripe right off is why not go with a full 10 rounds for an extended mag?  

[Marnoot]

My first defensive handgun was a CZ P-01 DA/SA. I have yet to find a handgun that fits my hand as well as it did. I really, really wanted the DA/SA action to work well for me, but I just couldn't get the muscle memory to deal with the change in trigger pull (while retaining accuracy) during rapid fire (i.e. double-tap). Slow fire was no problem. I'm sure if I did enough training with it I could get the muscle-memory for it, but ended up going with DAO as an easier-for-me route.

That's the problem with Percentages.  27% less effort than what?

Good point. According to this: "27% less racking effort when compared to leading semi-automatic pistols." Which is equally meaningless 

[Brad Johnson]

 One gripe right off is why not go with a full 10 rounds for an extended mag?  

Lawyer-proofing for CA/MA, maybe?

Brad

[lee n. field]

Springfield has announced their new 9mm single-stack, the XDe: http://www.springfield-armory.com/xde-features/

On the one-hand, I'm intrigued by the "low-effort slide", as while my grip-strength is sufficient for normal slides, too much monkeying with them gets my hands shaky which doesn't do great things for my accuracy. On the other, I don't do well with DA/SA actions. I love the principle: long deliberate DA pull for first shot, short clean SA for follow-up. As I learned quickly my first two days at Front Sight several years ago though, the transition in finger-action between the first two shots messed me up every time, resulting in bad accuracy during rapid fire. I managed to forget my gun one day during the training (impressive, I know), so I had to rent a Glock, which I did so much better with I turned into a DAO acolyte, though I've since moved to Springfields as the grips fit me better.

You could certainly carry it SA cocked-and-locked with the safety on and use it that way. I don't have any 1911s (heresy!) or similar SA guns though, so I've not enough experience with those to know if that would work well for me.

Also wondering if the slide has some sort of mechanism that reduces the opening effort, but closing force is still high enough for reliability, or if they just reduced spring power hoping to ride a fine line between reduced opening force and still chambering a round . . .

My 2 XD guns are the hardest to rack of anything I own.  My XDS-s, I honestly haven't paid attention, but I expect they're about the same.

The XDE uses a compound dual spring recoil assembly type thing, so they may be doing something special.  Just have to wait and see how reliable these turn out to be.

I see the XDE as addressing some of the common complaints about the XDS from the Internet peanut gallery.

"Grip safety bad!" -- doesn't have one

"XDS trigger sux!" -- totally different system

"grip texturing hurts my tender hands" -- uses the Mod 2's Gripe Zone (sic) texturing.

I note that the grip is too long to use the XDS' short mag.  Mid mag and long mag lengths only.  So, I couldn't use it as a pocket gun.  The mid length magazine in the XDS is a length I really like.

The AIWB cool kids will love it.  As is typical with new Springfield XD releases, I'm not feeling compelled by anything I see to ditch what I have and get this.

 "XDMAN" (a gunsmith who specializes in that line) had a pretty informative post on the Book of Faces this morning.

[lee n. field]

 One gripe right off is why not go with a full 10 rounds for an extended mag?  

They look like they're using the XDS mags, which max out at 9, and appear clownishly long in proportion on the XDS.  (I prefer the mid length magazine.)

[MechAg94]

That's the problem with Percentages.  27% less effort than what?  An XDS?  A Desert Eagle?  An SR22?  That doesn't actually tell us anything.

It's an interesting idea, and I AM a DA/SA fan.  That said I'm also a 1911 fan, and if Springfield is going to sell me a small, skinny 9mm it's probably going to be an EMP 4

My boss has an EMP 4.  It is a really nice pistol if you can afford it.  It is also very thin except for the 1911 style thumb safety that sticks out a little on each side.  If I were to get a 9mm single stack, that would be my preference starting out.  I guess it would depend on if I wanted a true pocket gun or not.

I guess this XDE does hit a small niche.  The are lots of single stack 9mm handguns on the market right now, but few or none of the polymer guns use a hammer.

[Fly320s]

Great.  Springfield can use this new gun to shoot themselves in the foot, again.

Springfield just got a special "out" in a new bill running through the Illinois house.

[lee n. field]

Great.  Springfield can use this new gun to shoot themselves in the foot, again.

Springfield just got a special "out" in a new bill running through the Illinois house.

Yup.  Saw that.   <scowl>


----edit to add----

The bill in question:  http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=91&GA=100&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=2541&GAID=14&LegID=103735&SpecSess=&Session=

[Perd Hapley]

Great.  Springfield can use this new gun to shoot themselves in the foot, again.

Springfield just got a special "out" in a new bill running through the Illinois house.

Yeah, they also waited until I bought my first Springfield to do that.

I am pretty sure my XDS 45 is wider than 1".

I haven't measured, myself, but according to all the info I've heard/read, the controls on the XDs bring it to just 1" wide.

[MechAg94]

I will have to measure mine. 

I kind of figured if I ever got one of the polymer single stack 9mm, it would be between the Glock 43 and the Honor Guard.  I might have to include this one in that list.

[brimic]

What genius said "let's take a carry gun, complicate the manual of arms, and add a hammer to it for good measure." 
 

[MechAg94]

I will have to measure mine. 

I kind of figured if I ever got one of the polymer single stack 9mm, it would be between the Glock 43 and the Honor Guard.  I might have to include this one in that list.

Okay, I measured my......um.....Springfield XDs 45 and yes, it is about an inch or less in width.  I didn't realize it was that thin. 

I can see eliminating the grip safety would please some people though I know others who like the added safety layer.  I am not sure about the hammer.  I guess there are some people for whom it is important.  How it feels in my hand and how the trigger feels when shooting would be the big issues for me. 

I am not picky on striker or DA/SA for carry, but I do like the double action first shot for my home defense gun since it spends a lot of time sitting around within reach instead of in a holster.  I do switch around often though.

[cordex]

Tam posted the picture I wanted to see:

After due consideration, there is simply nothing about the XDe that blows my socks off.  I'd take one if it was given to me, but other than that it is sort of like their last PR campaign when they tried to make yet another AR-15 out to be super exciting.

Yeah, it has a few sort of cool features, but really nothing that makes it stand out for me.

[MechAg94]

That was sort of my thought, but I get that way a bit with all the single stack 9mm pistols.  They are interesting, but I am not sure I want to carry one.  I still think about it occasionally though. 

[White Horseradish]

I already have a DA/SA pistol. It's called SIG.

[lee n. field]

If the current kerfuffle doesn't keep them away from my club's open house, I hope to be able to run a few rounds through one soon.  (Springfield's an hour and a half away from my house, so probably an hour from the club.  They've had a table every year I've been there.  Chat, fondle stuff, try stuff out.)

I've noticed that at that size, little differences can make a big difference.  I'm going to keep an open mind, but don't see myself wanting this  right now.

[MechAg94]

A local gun shop had the Springfield rep in house last Friday.  He had a bunch of display model pistols to handle and try the trigger and such. 

The XDe wasn't too bad for a DA/SA gun, but the DA trigger is long and doesn't fire until the trigger gets all the way back.  The break was clean, but take up was a bit long to me.  I am just not all that enthusiastic about a single stack 9mm (most of them, not just this one).  It has a thumb safety so you can carry it cocked and locked if you want.

They did have an EMP4 which is a small 1911 style pistol with a 10 round single stack mag in 9mm.  It is about the same size and IMO a better purchase.  It is near $1000 so it is a bit more expensive. 

At a different shop, I saw a Uberti Schofield pistol in 45 LC Saturday that I think I would rather have.  Also an Iver Johnson 22 revolver with a top break action.  Those were at Collector's Firearms in Houston.

[lee n. field]

A local gun shop had the Springfield rep in house last Friday.  He had a bunch of display model pistols to handle and try the trigger and such.

The XDe wasn't too bad for a DA/SA gun, but the DA trigger is long and doesn't fire until the trigger gets all the way back.  The break was clean, but take up was a bit long to me.  I am just not all that enthusiastic about a single stack 9mm (most of them, not just this one).  It has a thumb safety so you can carry it cocked and locked if you want.

Club's open house was this past weekend.  Springfield was there, as usual.  I put a magazine's worth through the XDE.  I didn't notice the trigger at all, good or bad.  But, personally, I wasn't that enthused about the gun.  The thumb safety was low profile, so it might be "missable".

[Perd Hapley]

The common wisdom a year ago was that the gun world waited with bated breath for Glock to start making a single-stack 9. Now some of you are saying you don't see the appeal. Is that just contrarianism, or do we have regrets?

Personally, I was happy with my single-stack .45, and I like my single-stack 9 (XDs) just about as much.

[cordex]

Now some of you are saying you don't see the appeal. Is that just contrarianism, or do we have regrets?

Not trying to be contrarian, but I also don't think "single stack 9mm" is the full measure of the gun.

I don't think the XDe can come close to competing with the Shield for value.  With rebates and a decent LGS you're looking at getting into a Shield for something like $250-$275.  That's unbelievable to me, and I've tossed around the idea of getting one even though I have a G43 already.

The XDe seems like an okay pistol but the DA/SA trigger sort of sours it for me, and on everything else (size, bore axis, etc) it is either equivalent or less desirable than the G43 in my opinion.

[Perd Hapley]

Not trying to be contrarian, but I also don't think "single stack 9mm" is the full measure of the gun.

I was responding to those who said they don't see the appeal of a single-stack 9.

On second look, the same guy made both comments.