Author Topic: Buy your solar roof today!  (Read 6783 times)

Fly320s

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 01:38:47 PM »
Asphalt roof (Tesla's estimate): $17,400

Solar Roof(40% solar): $81,600
Tesla PowerWall(2 ea for AC): $12,500

Huh.  Tesla says I need

70% solar roof: $61,400
1 powerwall: 7,000

I wonder why our roof prices are so different.
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dogmush

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »
SQ Footage I imagine.  I have a 2900 sqft single story house

Fly320s

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 01:46:23 PM »
SQ Footage I imagine.  I have a 2900 sqft single story house

I'm doing 3,000 sgft 2-story.  And I'm all electric so I bumped up my average monthly bill.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2017, 02:20:45 PM »
There's a lot more to it than just area. The Tesla tiles have to follow the architectural pitch (slope) of the roof, so the solar collector shingles may not be (and probably won't be) at the optimal angle for most efficient collection. Ideally the collector is at 90 degrees to the sun, and in an active system the collector panels move to track the sun.

Then they have to figure in the percentage of sunlight over the course of a year. Not just daylight hours, but how many days are rainy, how many days are heavily overcast, and how many days actually get bright sunlight.

Going back to the original article, I noticed that the payback period is actually more than 30 years -- but the system is only guaranteed to keep water out of your house for 30 years. Which means there's a good chance you'll be paying to replace it before it has even paid for itself. I'm probably not going to live to 104, so I don't see a Tesla solar roof in my future.
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Ben

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »
Going back to the original article, I noticed that the payback period is actually more than 30 years -- but the system is only guaranteed to keep water out of your house for 30 years. Which means there's a good chance you'll be paying to replace it before it has even paid for itself. I'm probably not going to live to 104, so I don't see a Tesla solar roof in my future.

The follow-up article indicates they changed that to life of the house. Not helpful if you move the average number of times most Americans do, but if you were going to build or buy a place in your 30s and live there until your 80s, that could start to make it viable vs replacing an asphalt roof at least once in that time.
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Nick1911

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2017, 02:42:12 PM »
Their estimated asphalt replacement cost was much too high.  Tesla said it'd be $10,300... I just had mine done two years ago for $5300.

Ben

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2017, 03:38:49 PM »
Their estimated asphalt replacement cost was much too high.  Tesla said it'd be $10,300... I just had mine done two years ago for $5300.

Definitely depends on where you live. Around here, $5300 might cover around 800-1000sqft with cheaper comp roofing and south of the border labor.

I'm guessing Tesla is using CA/NY/Etc Urban pricing, as I suspect that's where most of their business will come from. As others mentioned, if you have dirt cheap electricity, it doesn't make a lot of sense at current pricing. If you have high priced electricity and high costs for roofing material/labor, it begins to make more fiscal sense, at least with the tax credits.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2017, 05:14:05 PM »
Isn't "Tesla" actually Serbian for "Apple?"    ;)

No, it's actually a jumble for "Steal."
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HankB

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2017, 09:44:14 AM »
With financing, loans, .gov handouts, roof pitch and orientation, seasonal and weather dependent sunlight duration, etc., a creative accountant can probably come up with ANY result the solar shingle seller wants him to - and justify it "mathematically."

Do any of the "payback times" which can extend to 30 years take into account the 30 years of compound returns on investment income you lose, especially if you make a big down payment?

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Fly320s

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2017, 12:43:03 PM »
Do any of the "payback times"  ... take into account the 30 years of compound returns on investment income you lose,

Of course not.  That would make the buyer look foolish and Tesla look evil.
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GigaBuist

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2017, 10:16:31 PM »
In areas where you sell your excess power to the grid the payback is more like 10 years, even here in rainy/cloudy western WA.  A) you don't have a "Powerwall" or other battery storage to pay for, and B) the power company is required in most places to pay you 25-100% more than the retail price of the electricity you consume from the grid for what you put back during the daytime.

Emphasis mine.  That isn't the case in Michigan. We run a 150 kWh solar array at work and we pay $0.14/kWh we pull off the grid but only get back $0.10/kWh that we put on it.

We're probably looking at around a 6 year payback on the install.  After that we'll earn $30 a year.

wmenorr67

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2017, 02:44:22 AM »
Ex-wife just got the contract to replace the roof on my house in Tulsa, cost is $13,789.91.
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MechAg94

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2017, 09:11:15 AM »
Ex-wife just got the contract to replace the roof on my house in Tulsa, cost is $13,789.91.
What material is it made of? 
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Fly320s

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2017, 09:27:37 AM »
Ex-wife just got the contract to replace the roof on my house in Tulsa, cost is $13,789.91.

Must be asphalt shingle.  Or she got a hell of a deal on the Tesla roof.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2017, 01:42:39 PM »
What material is it made of? 

I'm assuming asphalt shingle.  If I was actually there I would have inquired on the cost of replacing with a metal roof.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

MechAg94

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2017, 03:37:11 PM »
I'm assuming asphalt shingle.  If I was actually there I would have inquired on the cost of replacing with a metal roof.
Maybe the next question is how large the roof is.  Mine was quite a bit cheaper.  May be a much larger roof or multi-story. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

wmenorr67

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2017, 03:46:56 PM »
Maybe the next question is how large the roof is.  Mine was quite a bit cheaper.  May be a much larger roof or multi-story. 

The house itself is 1800 plus square feet.  The roof has multiple weird angles and isn't a straight A style pitch.  It has multiple pitches.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Scout26

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2017, 07:54:56 PM »
Does it include a tearoff and if so, how many layers ??
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wmenorr67

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2017, 08:02:49 PM »
Does it include a tearoff and if so, how many layers ??

I'm going to say yes and one.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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Scout26

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2017, 08:10:58 PM »
Normally, you can put a second layer on.  You just pay more in 20-30 years when it's time to replace again.

Even with the weird angles.  That sounds high.  I hope they are getting at least two mores quotes...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

wmenorr67

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2017, 08:41:22 PM »
Insurance is paying, I only have to cover $3900 and this is one of their approved contractors.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Brad Johnson

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2017, 03:32:57 PM »
Ex-wife just got the contract to replace the roof on my house in Tulsa, cost is $13,789.91.

Sounds about right. 1800 sq ft with a high pitch and lots of odd angles would probably be around 36 squares. If it's asphalt shingle i'm guessing it's probably a 30-year dimensional, so about $350-400 per square ($12,600-$14,400).

Brad
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Boomhauer

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Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2017, 02:20:10 AM »
Sounds about right. 1800 sq ft with a high pitch and lots of odd angles would probably be around 36 squares. If it's asphalt shingle i'm guessing it's probably a 30-year dimensional, so about $350-400 per square ($12,600-$14,400).

Brad

I just reroofed my two story 1800 sq ft house with bunch of odd angles and steep angles (steep enough the hombres actually used harnesses and ropes).

25 squares...$8600 quoted through Home Depot's installation program...then they knocked off $700 for issues on their end of getting the crew out to do the work


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Scout26

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Re: Buy your solar roof today!
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2017, 04:40:56 PM »
And electricity
 here is $.0779 a KWH which gives one a 36 year ROI based on KDH's $2.85 per KWH.   And that's assuming that you can go 100% off-grid and never have to use grid power.  Also that the glass and batteries don't degrade over time (they do).  I have skylights in my dining room and I can see the dust and dirt left on them by each subsequent rain.  So unless you go up and "wash" your skylights after each rain, you are not going to get "100%" of the available power from them.    And let's not forget about the batteries.  Those have so long before the charging and discharging take their toll and need to be replaced.  Look at you cell phone battery life over time.  It get's shorter and shorter between charges as time goes on.  Same with your car battery those are good for what, 4-7 years at the most??

And that's with the .gov subsidies.  Sorry, but solar is not economically viable for the average resident consumer.   In certain situations (areas that are closer to the equator, get less cloud cover/bad weather, and an uneconomical to connect to the grid, and/or small(ish) power demands), it makes sense.  But overall, it's not there yet, and until they develop solar cells with a much higher output per cost, chances are it won't be. 

Just renewed by electricity plan with Constellation.  $.0739 kWH.  And keep in mind that neither Indiana nor Illinois have started Fracking yet, and the southern parts of both states were big in coal mining, so that means lots of trapped NG. 


Quote
...the vast Illinois Basin, an underground treasure chest of oil, natural gas and coal that runs beneath most of the state but yields its most abundant riches in the far south.

The basin's coal is high in sulfur, and it burns hotter and generates electricity more efficiently than coal mined elsewhere. For decades that was a competitive advantage, but sulfur's role in creating acid rain led to provisions in the Clean Air Act that prompted utilities to install expensive scrubbers or switch to low-sulfur coal.

quoted from: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-coal-bust-illinois-met-20160918-story.html



Solar is just not economically viable.  At $2.85kWh, the ROI at $.0739 is 38.5 years.   And that's assuming you can go 100% without grid. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.