On the Bundys

[Ben]

Whatever you may think of the father and sons, the FBI setting up this fake documentary seems highly unethical to me:

http://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/05/16/the-fbi-posed-as-journalists-to-film-a-fake-documentary-on-the-bundy-family-but-its-not-tied-to-trump-so-%c2%af_%e3%83%84_%c2%af/

[DittoHead]

But did the Bundys ask if they were cops? If you ask a cop if he's a cop they totally have to tell the truth ya know.

setting up this fake documentary seems highly unethical to me:

Why is this undercover tactic unethical compared to posing as a drug dealer/buyer or prostitute or anything else where law enforcement conceals their identity & intentions?

[MechAg94]

It seems like I have seen a few different stories over the last couple years about the FBI spending a great deal of money on investigations that end up digging up little or no significant evidence 

[T.O.M.]

Back when I was a prosecutor, and investigator said something to me that stuck...

"The sins of the devil are rarely witnessed by angels."

It was a line he often used in front of a jury to explain why the drug task force used controlled informants to make drug buys.  By controlled, I mean wired with camera and microphone, recorded buy money, etc.

As to the OP, let me say this.  The story used by the agent was that he was filming a documentary.  IN other words, he planned to publish what he saw, what he recorded, and what the Bundys did in his presence.  It wasn't like he went in pretending to be a lawyer or a priest and giving the Bundys some sense that there was confidentiality in their conversations.  Was it dishonest?  Yes.  Was it unethical?  Maybe.  Is it ilegal?  Not in the least.

[Ben]

As to the OP, let me say this.  The story used by the agent was that he was filming a documentary.  IN other words, he planned to publish what he saw, what he recorded, and what the Bundys did in his presence.  It wasn't like he went in pretending to be a lawyer or a priest and giving the Bundys some sense that there was confidentiality in their conversations.  Was it dishonest?  Yes.  Was it unethical?  Maybe.  Is it ilegal?  Not in the least.

Agreed. My "unethical" problem comes from the backstory of the gov having it out for the Bundys and other ranchers, and to me, going to prejudicial extremes to get something on them or make something up. The Bundy thing in OR never would have happened if gov bureaucrats didn't completely misuse the law to send those ranchers to jail.

[T.O.M.]

Agreed. My "unethical" problem comes from the backstory of the gov having it out for the Bundys and other ranchers, and to me, going to prejudicial extremes to get something on them or make something up. The Bundy thing in OR never would have happened if gov bureaucrats didn't completely misuse the law to send those ranchers to jail.

And that, my friend, is a whole different ball of wax.  Yes, .gov should never have it out for someone.  The people in charge shouldn't do that sort of thing, targeting a person for any reason other than criminal activity.  We know it happens.  It shouldn't.  Just like being a friend of someone in charge shouldn't get you any benefits (which we also know happens).

[cordex]

I'm with Chris.  They went into it knowing that some or all of what they say could be published.  Granted, they might be more inclined to tell a more extreme version of events "off the record" if they thought the filmmaker was a sympathetic ear, but it is hard to get too worked up about the technique independent of the target.

The FBI documentary team has a website: http://www.longbowproductions.com/home.html  Maybe we should contact them and ask them about doing some documentaries about Black Lives Matters and Antifa.  I bet they could collect some incriminating evidence pretty easily.

[K Frame]

Would that be Ted Budy, or Al and Peggy Bundy?

[230RN]

I knew somebody would bring them up.  Or Ted Bundy.

As Ben touched on briefly, that shows the difference between the law and ethics.  Or, well, "fairness," anyhow.

(This is not to say that I don't have a lot of fun watching "Bait Car.")

[MechAg94]

I thought the point of the article (or one of them) was that they went to all that effort and didn't get anything they couldn't have already gotten from the internet.  Big waste of time and money.

[230RN]

Because of extra publicity?

The more noise you make about anything, good, bad, or indifferent ridiculous, the more acceptable it becomes.

You've heard the term "raising consciousness?"

It's also sometimes called advertising.

It's also sometimes called propaganda.

It's also sometimes called the big lie.

[just Warren]

Right on cue here's an article on the Bundys from one of my favorite rabble-rousin' writers.

[Jamisjockey]

As much as I am extremely leery of these sorts of things and the (mis)behavior of the police...
I'll echo chamber the above comments.  They weren't posing as priests in the confessional.  They were posing as journalists claiming to have the intent of making the goings on inside the Bundy circle PUBLIC.
No expectation of confidentiality nor of privacy there.

[Jamisjockey]

Right on cue here's an article on the Bundys from one of my favorite rabble-rousin' writers.

He makes some fantastic points but sweet baby Xenu someone make him use a spellcheck and double-check the formatting of his rants....that hurt to read with all the errors....

[DittoHead]

Claiming that the BLM owns too much land is something I can understand and probably agree with.
Claiming that the land is not federally owned at all seems a bit far out there to me.

I still see the Bundys the same way I see the other BLM - whatever legitimate complains you may have had, I have no sympathy for your cause due to your stupid antics.

[230RN]

For our foreign or new members:

BLM = "Bureau of Land Management"

also,

BLM = "Black Lives Matter"

[gunsmith]

For our foreign or new members:

BLM = "Bureau of Land Management"

also,

BLM = "Black Lives Matter"

Bureau of Land Marxist

[Fly320s]

Bureau of Land Marxist

Black Land Memes.