Author Topic: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter  (Read 18000 times)

Hawkmoon

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2017, 02:43:39 PM »
I tried a left click. All it does is insert a waypoint.

Never mind -- I sort of got it. I have some learning to do.

[Edit] No, I don't have it. Left click pops up the name of the vessel and there's an option to show past track, but when I click on that ... nothing happens.
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Ben

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2017, 02:46:29 PM »
I tried a left click. All it does is insert a waypoint.

Never mind -- I sort of got it. I have some learning to do.

Sometimes you have to reload the page to "reset" stuff and then left-clicking will work again. I don't remember how long back the free version lets you look for tracks. I always used the professional version at work, which has more features.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2017, 03:10:37 PM »
Seems to go back 12 hours and forward 12 hours from "now."

But it won't show me a track.
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dogmush

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2017, 03:17:45 PM »
Past track might be a feature you have to sign in for.  I have a user account, but I just use the free "basic" plan. Also the Past track feature only goes back 96 hours.  (at least in my account)  That's why folks screenshotted the Chrystal.

Ben

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2017, 03:50:14 PM »
I'm pretty sure the pro version went back at least 30 days.

Edit: Actually, from the site: free version = 3 days, pro version =90 days.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2017, 11:24:57 PM »
More information, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4621656/US-sailors-trapped-ALIVE-USS-Fitzgerald-sank.html

Falls under "hazard of the trade".
Kind of a known thing. Save the ship takes priority.
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Blakenzy

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2017, 09:56:57 AM »
Seems to me that the US military is kind of like Rocky in Rocky III
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Hawkmoon

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2017, 11:35:49 AM »
It has apparently been confirmed that the container ship was running on autopilot.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/freighter-autopilot-hit-us-destroyer/

Looking at those maritime tracking screen shots it seems like this was a very crowded seaway and that not having someone actually manning the bridge was rather dumb. But ... it was 64 miles off the coast, which is a lot farther out than I've ever gone in any watercraft other than a tour ship when I was in high school.

It still doesn't explain how a modern U.S. military ship, with very advanced threat and collision detection equipment, somehow didn't see the other ship coming.
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dogmush

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2017, 11:51:05 AM »
It has apparently been confirmed that the container ship was running on autopilot.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/freighter-autopilot-hit-us-destroyer/

Looking at those maritime tracking screen shots it seems like this was a very crowded seaway and that not having someone actually manning the bridge was rather dumb. But ... it was 64 miles off the coast, which is a lot farther out than I've ever gone in any watercraft other than a tour ship when I was in high school.

It still doesn't explain how a modern U.S. military ship, with very advanced threat and collision detection equipment, somehow didn't see the other ship coming.

Yeah, that's not how autopilot's are used.  Of course it was on autopilot.  I'm on autopilot from like 1/2 a mile out of port.  Who want's to stand with their hands on a wheel for 8 hours at a time.  There is still a watch officer and lookouts required by law to be on the bridge.

I've seen several news stories talking about "the freighter was on autopilot" like that meant it couldn't turn.  That's disingenuous at best.

If the freighter was actually running an unmanned bridge underway, that's a VERY different thing, illegal, and very negligent. It's one of the few things that could suck a lot of the fault away from the Fitzgerald.

That said, I've run into some idiots manning bridges, people that couldn't speak english manning bridges, aholes that didn't know the nav rules manning bridges, idiots sleeping on the bridge, and one guy getting a blowjob so epic he didn't notice us until the warning shot manning a bridge.  I've never found an actually unmanned bridge.

MillCreek

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2017, 12:03:49 PM »
^^^So how sophisticated are modern ship autopilots?  Can you tell it where to go and it automatically plots and holds a course, or does it just cruise in a straight line until told otherwise?
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Fly320s

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2017, 12:51:07 PM »
Yeah, that's not how autopilot's are used.  Of course it was on autopilot.  I'm on autopilot from like 1/2 a mile out of port.  Who want's to stand with their hands on a wheel for 8 hours at a time.  There is still a watch officer and lookouts required by law to be on the bridge.

I've seen several news stories talking about "the freighter was on autopilot" like that meant it couldn't turn.  That's disingenuous at best.

If the freighter was actually running an unmanned bridge underway, that's a VERY different thing, illegal, and very negligent. It's one of the few things that could suck a lot of the fault away from the Fitzgerald.

That said, I've run into some idiots manning bridges, people that couldn't speak english manning bridges, aholes that didn't know the nav rules manning bridges, idiots sleeping on the bridge, and one guy getting a blowjob so epic he didn't notice us until the warning shot manning a bridge.  I've never found an actually unmanned bridge.

Whio gave the warning shot, you or him?   :P
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Ben

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2017, 01:15:50 PM »

If the freighter was actually running an unmanned bridge underway, that's a VERY different thing, illegal, and very negligent. It's one of the few things that could suck a lot of the fault away from the Fitzgerald.

One of the main theories I'm hearing bandied about is that either the bridge was unmanned, or else it was manned by an unqualified person not trained as watch and/or not qualified (thus not knowing how) to nudge or disengage autopilot and tweak their course. Or possibly not knowing that if that blip is stationary, you need to do something. Or possibly thinking the blip will do something so you don't have to*.

I could see something like that (unqualified or no watch stander) being a higher possibility well out to sea, but even on a lax third world crewed cargo vessel, you would think the captain would have enough self-preservation instinct not to put Gilligan on the bridge by himself in a crowded traffic lane.

All that said, I'm pretty sure all of us want to hear more about the blowjob incident.  =D



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dogmush

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2017, 01:19:15 PM »
^^^So how sophisticated are modern ship autopilots?  Can you tell it where to go and it automatically plots and holds a course, or does it just cruise in a straight line until told otherwise?

They generally have three modes. (obviously there are different brands and such with more or less features, but generally).  Heading Control Mode will hold the heading you set.  Wind, waves, current, don't matter.  it gust keeps the compass at what you set. Course Control Mode will adjust the heading to make the course over ground you set.  So if you want 090 and there's a 30 knot crosswind, it'll hold the heading at 085 (or whatever) so you travel 090 over the ground.  Track Control mode will follow the track you have programmed into the electronic chart system.  Generally you give the computer a plus or minus amount (called a "cross track error") that it can be from the actual line.  Which a mariner chooses depends on conditions, traffic, and the officer of the watch's judgement.  I generally run in Track Control once I clear any traffic schemes, or Traffic Controlled areas.  My standard open water Cross track is 100m, but my auto pilot holds +/- 10 m even in heavy seas, and +/- 1-4 m in calm seas.

It is also mandated that there is a single control to turnoff autopilot ("single user action" in the lingo)  So while I have several touch screens and a trackball to dial in every feature I want (or don't) (I can control rate of turn, max rudder the boat can use, cross track, +/- limits of all the parameters in all the modes, measure in 1/10 of a degree or whole degrees and so on) there is one switch, that if I push that the autopilot shuts of, and you're back in manual control instantly.

It is also required that a qualified Watch Officer be on the bridge at all times.


Quote
Whio gave the warning shot, you or him?

We did.  Looked like it really ruined the mood.  It was a while back; these days I'd have the whole thing on camera and thermals (and would youtube that mother)  but back then we had less toys.

dogmush

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2017, 01:40:19 PM »
Thread Veer:

No *expletive deleted*it, there we were.....

circa early 2002 moving ammo, weapons, and vehicles to a remote port in Central America, supporting our allies down there. About 200 mile east of Cancun, headed south-ish.  As you can imagine in that timeframe we were a little twitchy, and we had munitions on board.  At the time we were enforcing a 150m exclusion zone around all our vessels.

Radar contact, on the port beam, steady bearing decreasing range.  *expletive deleted*it.

At about 3 miles out it's becomes obvious that it's a sweet yacht in the 80' range.  One of the ones with a nice fly bridge up top.  

At 2.5 miles or so, we start hailing on VHF to arrange the crossing.  No answer.  We progress to sounding stern on the radio and identifying ourselves as a military vessel.  No answer.  Sound General quarters, load the guns. Call on radio again. Nothing.  

The collision avoidance plots show we'd have to damn near turn around, or stop dead to pass at a good distance. (The particular course and speeds of the two vessels meant we couldn't really get away.  we didn't have the reserve speed to clear him)  Skipper is like "F that, we're Stand On here".  Hit the fog horn and call again.  Mention this time that we are an armed  military vessel.  Nothing.  No movement, or sign of life on the yacht.  

He cleared .75nm (4000yds), and we go weapons green (one in the chamber, ready to rock).  Call several more times, mention that they need to turn away, or they will be fired upon.  Nada.  

At about 300-250M Skipper says "Put a burst across their bow".  10 rounds from Ma Deuce reach out and splash about 75m in front of the incoming vessel.  Pretty much instantly a dude sits up in the fly bridge and looks at us with HUGE eyes.  Then he starts hitting his lap and pushing something away.  Shortly thereafter a very tanned young lady that was not constrained by thoughts of bikini tops sits up, looks at us on the gun deck and, no *expletive deleted*it, wipes her mouth and waves.  Dude meanwhile has killed his autopilot, firewalled his engines and turns 90 degrees away from us.  Hold that course and what looks like every bit of speed his boat will give him till he clears the horizon and we loose him on RADAR.  


Good times. I was on the helm so I didn't get to shoot at them, but had a nice view of the friendly young lady.

I'd bet that RKL has some good periscope video stories.  I've heard subs can be sneaky about that kind of thing.

Ben

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2017, 01:44:56 PM »
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And really, yacht dude, and probably girl, got at least as good of a bar story out of that as you did.  :laugh:
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Hawkmoon

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2017, 02:35:46 PM »
and one guy getting a blowjob so epic he didn't notice us until the warning shot manning a bridge.

Ummm ... phraseology ...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2017, 02:52:04 PM »
Quote
I'd bet that RKL has some good periscope video stories.  I've heard subs can be sneaky about that kind of thing

Not too much from underway. A few good shots of young ladies au naturale on the deck of sailboats going in/out of San Diego.
Some of the better shots from the 'scope were while we were in port. San Diego was the best for it, we would tie up close to the head of the pier and get and absolutely AWSOME view of the parking areas. The amount of hanky-panky taking place in the parking lot was astounding and early night vision tech was pretty cool back in the early '80s .
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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230RN

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2017, 04:35:07 PM »
Couldn't help it:

Bon Voyeur !

I tried, I really tried, not to do that.

But I'm weak... weak as water.

Fly320s

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2017, 04:39:26 PM »
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

just Warren

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #95 on: June 23, 2017, 05:06:34 PM »
One of the main theories I'm hearing bandied about is that either the bridge was unmanned, or else it was manned by an unqualified person not trained as watch and/or not qualified (thus not knowing how) to nudge or disengage autopilot and tweak their course. Or possibly not knowing that if that blip is stationary, you need to do something. Or possibly thinking the blip will do something so you don't have to*.



Yes, let's have more of this.
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Ben

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2017, 05:40:45 PM »
Yes, let's have more of this.

More of what?
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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #97 on: June 23, 2017, 10:44:51 PM »
Or Bun Voyeur.

Damn.  Topped again. :D

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just Warren

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #98 on: June 23, 2017, 10:56:19 PM »
More of what?

Putting the blame in a more-them less-us direction.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: USS Fitzgerald struck by Phillipine freighter
« Reply #99 on: June 23, 2017, 11:11:19 PM »
Putting the blame in a more-them less-us direction.

Blame goes where blame goes. Sometimes all blame lies squarely on one party's shoulders, often (probably more often) there's enough blame to spread around. Yes, there are maritime rules of the road, for the intention of avoiding collisions, but the most fundamental rule is "Don't hit the other ship." Running a large ship in a (comparatively) crowded sea lane with either no watch on the bridge or a bridge watch that wasn't qualified to operate the ship doesn't make a positive contribution to the prime directive.
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