Author Topic: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size  (Read 10415 times)

Ben

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Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« on: June 27, 2017, 07:51:30 PM »
Are you kidding me? Is there anyone at APS that buys lumber ever that doesn't know that 4x4s are 3.5x3.5s? I'd actually be kinda pissed if If  I bought some to use that were actually 4x4, because then all my measurements would be screwed up. I mean, this is common knowledge, right?

I hope whoever is bringing the lawsuit has to pay all court costs when they lose.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/06/21/home-depot-menards-lumber-size-lawsuit/415874001/
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lupinus

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Re:
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 07:53:48 PM »
To be fair, I know a fair number of folks who wouldn't have any idea this was the case.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 08:11:05 PM »
Quote
“Defendant has received significant profits from its false marketing and sale of its dimensional lumber products,” the action against Menards contends.

I'm sure they made all kinds of dishonest gain by selling 4x4s the exact same size as everyone else's.


Does Menards' packaging disclose that 130-volt, 60-wattt bulbs use less than 60 watts? Have they been deceiving us all this time?!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 08:24:29 PM by fistful »
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Sideways_8

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 08:31:27 PM »
If they want actual 4" x 4" then they should have bought it rough sawn. Legally, a 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" is a 4x4.

makattak

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Re:
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 08:38:18 PM »
On their website they also clearly state their actual measurements.

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K Frame

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 08:59:50 PM »
I know a lawyer/law firm that needs to lose licenses...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 09:28:24 PM »
I'll say the same thing I've said elsewhere about this.
The lawyer that filed this should be disbarred,  the judge that doesn't summarily dismiss it with prejudice should be tarred and feathered.  
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freakazoid

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 10:03:42 PM »
I did not know this, of course I haven't exactly done a lot of wood buying. Calling it a 4x4 when they aren't sounds deceitful. ???
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Andiron

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 10:08:34 PM »
I did not know this, of course I haven't exactly done a lot of wood buying. Calling it a 4x4 when they aren't sounds deceitful. ???

Totally the case until you own a house.  I didn't know a 2x4 wasn't until I measured one when the math didn't work for some project.
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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 10:09:41 PM »
I know a lawyer/law firm that needs to lose licenses...

Or just a good old fashioned beat down
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230RN

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 10:14:30 PM »
Not that I have micrometer-click eyeballs, but there was an old WPA (Works Projects Administration) outhouse on my farm.

Poking around in there when we first moved into the property, the studs somehow looked "funny."  Couldn't put my finger on it, but after a while I realized the studs were actual, honest-to-gawd, full 2 whole inches by 4 full whole inches.  So said my good ole Stanley tape measure.

Told Wife1 about it.  She wasn't as excited about this amazing discovery as I was.

A modicum of research indicates that what with seasoning shrinkage, sawmill saw kerf widths, sanding for smoothness, etc, etc, lumber sizes weren't really standardized until 1969 AD.

Maybe that suit should have been filed before then.

Terry

 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:53:08 PM by 230RN »

never_retreat

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 10:24:07 PM »
As stupid as this whole thing is can't they just claim its an industry standard and push the blame.
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Ben

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 10:28:23 PM »
I did not know this, of course I haven't exactly done a lot of wood buying. Calling it a 4x4 when they aren't sounds deceitful. ???

Okay, I'll step back my initial outrage and make allowances for those that haven't worked with lumber much. :)

But the lawyers still need a beat down.

Also, to be clear for those not familiar, it's not just about 4x4s. Most all construction lumber is measured like that. 2x4s are 1.5x3.5 for instance.

Heck, you even have (depending on the region of the country probably) "8' studs", which are not to be confused with 2x4x8s. They are 2x4x92 1/4. When I was a young buck working construction, the younger guys (and me to this day) just called them 92 1/4 studs, but everyone knew they were what you used for an 8' wall. A lot of the older guys called them "8 foot studs", and if they told you to go to the lumber yard to get a bunch, you'd better not come back with actual 8' 2x4s.
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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 10:32:24 PM »
As stupid as this whole thing is can't they just claim its an industry standard and push the blame.

Or fix the industry standard to match the vastly older standard called "inches."

The industry is welcome to continue making 1-1/2x3-1/2s, and all other sizes.  Hell, they can make 1-63/128x3-91/184s if the want.  Just don't call it what it's not and claim "industry standard" as a justification.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 10:33:13 PM »
As stupid as this whole thing is can't they just claim its an industry standard and push the blame.

It is an industry standard and has been since Jesus was an apprentice carpenter. Ive known it since I was about 12, family full of carpenters though.  Dimension lumber size is rough cut size and finished size is after planing.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 10:51:34 PM »
It is an industry standard and has been since Jesus was an apprentice carpenter. Ive known it since I was about 12, family full of carpenters though.  Dimension lumber size is rough cut size and finished size is after planing.


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K Frame

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2017, 08:15:26 AM »
Well, maybe not since Jeebus, but it's been this way for a LONG time.

Interesting PDF of an article on the subject from 1964.

https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

Size standards started developing after the Civil War.
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RevDisk

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 09:47:27 AM »
I do woodworking, a lot. A lot of people were in a huff and saying "these people are morons, everyone knows 2x4's aren't two by four inches!"

To which I respond, "Why the hell does it seem normal to you to intentionally give false measurements? They SHOULD be properly called inch and half by three and a half inches. IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO INTENTIONALLY GIVE DIMENSIONS THAT ARE INCORRECT." I do 'fine woodworking'. By that I mean, stuff that is not construction work. In non-construction wood stuff, you need actual real measurements for everything. Accurate measurements, even.

Then I get a lecture about kilning, sanding, etc. Which I know. Because I do it myself. To get accurate dimension wood, you have to buy oversized and plane down to correct sizing. Because "industry standard" is friggin stupid. I have no problem with the dimensions actually used in the real world. Just the incorrect dimensions being used as an intentionally misleading description.  
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Nick1911

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 09:48:58 AM »
Slightly interesting, I took this picture in a hardware store in England around two years ago.

The dimensions are true dimensions for a 2x4, and in metric.  38 x 89 x 2400mm

And that piece of wood cost (at that time) about USD $7.


Perd Hapley

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2017, 09:52:54 AM »
Slightly interesting, I took this picture in a hardware store in England around two years ago.

The dimensions are true dimensions for a 2x4, and in metric.  38 x 89 x 2400mm


England has no 2x4s. They have "fourbeetwos."
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RevDisk

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2017, 10:08:19 AM »
I'll say the same thing I've said elsewhere about this.
The lawyer that filed this should be disbarred,  the judge that doesn't summarily dismiss it with prejudice should be tarred and feathered.  

The lawyer that is defending, you mean.  ;)

Industry standards can be wrong and misleading. Often are. They can and should be updated if they contain inaccurate information. Which they do.
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Ben

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2017, 10:19:23 AM »
The lawyer that is defending, you mean.  ;)


Really? If we want to have a discussion on specifying exact measurements, which, as pointed out earlier, including by government documents, is a complete cultural change, that's fine.

However, saying these attorneys and their clients have a legitimate claim? They are in it for nothing but money. If they truly wanted to sue for "honesty", they wouldn't have chosen to just sue HD and Menards. That's classic ambulance chasing. You want to make a change? Take it up with the timber and lumber industry, and also the government, who wrote the regulations on lumber description. These lawyers aren't looking for a change in lumber description, they are looking for a couple of big retailers to throw money at them to make this go away.

I guarantee that when HD orders lumber from their supplier, they don't order 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 -- they order 2x4.
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K Frame

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2017, 10:31:18 AM »
I do woodworking, a lot. A lot of people were in a huff and saying "these people are morons, everyone knows 2x4's aren't two by four inches!"

To which I respond, "Why the hell does it seem normal to you to intentionally give false measurements? They SHOULD be properly called inch and half by three and a half inches. IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO INTENTIONALLY GIVE DIMENSIONS THAT ARE INCORRECT." I do 'fine woodworking'. By that I mean, stuff that is not construction work. In non-construction wood stuff, you need actual real measurements for everything. Accurate measurements, even.

Then I get a lecture about kilning, sanding, etc. Which I know. Because I do it myself. To get accurate dimension wood, you have to buy oversized and plane down to correct sizing. Because "industry standard" is friggin stupid. I have no problem with the dimensions actually used in the real world. Just the incorrect dimensions being used as an intentionally misleading description.  



All of that is well and good, but that's no reason for a person to sue two home improvement stores or a lawyer to accept such a suit when the stores are using government-accepted standards of nomenclature

I've not read the complaint, but I really have to wonder how the individuals in the suit think that they were harmed by a confusing, but STANDARDIZED, system of nominal measurements?

Holy *expletive deleted*it, could you imagine if people in the shooting sports tried this crap?

My .300 Savage actually uses .308-diameter bullets! That 0.008 difference has irreparably harmed my life and I demand to be made whole with copious amounts of compensation!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 10:44:36 AM by Mike Irwin »
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Ben

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 10:33:48 AM »
My .300 Savage actually uses .308-diameter bullets! That 0.008 difference has irreparably harmed my life and I demand to be made whole with copious amounts of compensation!


I was thinking about comparable examples. That's an excellent one.
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K Frame

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Re: Home Depot, Menards Sued for "False" Lumber Size
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 10:35:39 AM »
$7 for a something by something?

Holy something!

:rofl:
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