Author Topic: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.  (Read 5977 times)

makattak

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 09:23:04 AM »
You're missing the the point.

Opponents of a rational immigration policy frequently say "actually you just don't want unpopular races and religions here, it's got nothing to do with the law."  And comments like "while we're kicking out the illegals let's add in Muslims" tend to prove them right.

There'd be a lot less hype and controversy if support for enforcing basic immigration laws didn't come with stuff like that.


Uh huh. You're right. If everyone, everywhere, had perfectly clear motives, then no one would ever paint with a broad brush, because people everywhere are just good people with the best intentions....

Wait, what?

Lots of people have mixed motives for what they do. For example, to claim that the Spanish who came over were just looking to subjugate the people here and take their land (the modern interpretation) is missing the point that people are complex and so are their motivations. The Spaniards wanted gold!!! And RICHES! Yes, some wanted that most. Some were patriots who wanted to conquer land for their nation. Some were devout people who wanted to reach a lost people for Christ. The vast majority had a mix of ALL of those and more.  

So too is this debate. No man alive is pure in motive. I'm sure there is some amount of fear of "the other" in many who support restrictions. Just as there is some hatred of "the same" (which is in reality "the other", but who happen to be fellow countrymen) in those who support more free immigration. (Or are you going to deny that?)

Focusing attacks on a very small, but less defensible part of an argument is sophistry. Is there fear? Of course. Is it justified? Perhaps. Is it the most important argument? Not hardly.
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MechAg94

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 10:29:46 AM »
Focusing attacks on a very small, but less defensible part of an argument is sophistry. Is there fear? Of course. Is it justified? Perhaps. Is it the most important argument? Not hardly.
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just Warren

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2017, 06:04:29 PM »
Who has trustworthy stats on the decline of border crossings and self-deportations?
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AJ Dual

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 12:10:32 AM »
We just need to tread very carefully with how we handle illegal immigration and deportations.

Last time we threatened the Democrats supply of cheap labor, they started the Civil War.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2017, 01:28:02 AM »
I'm a legal immigrant.  First generation American here...   My family moved here from Brazil when I was 11 years old.  They did everything right. Admittedly, we had a slightly easier time because my mother is an American citizen.  But I (and my brothers) all had to be naturalized.  My dad still has a green card.  I think at this point he figures he's too old to go through the whole process anyways.

In any case.  One of the things that pisses me off to no end is people cheating the system.  And immigration is no different.  I seriously believe we need a four step program to get illegal immigrants out of this country.

Step one is to build the damn wall.  Is it going to be expensive?  You bet.  Is it worth it?  Hell yes.  We have to stop the tide of illegals coming into this country for a handout.

Step two is a voluntary self-deportation.  Why would they voluntarily self-deport?  Because that's the only way they'll ever be allowed back into this country.  *IF* they return to their country of origin, then they may get in line to enter the country legally.   During this step, if you are not a legal immigrant or citizen, you CANNOT collect a single benefit.  No food stamps. No section 8. No TANF.  NOTHING.  This would be at most a three month window.

Step three is the last phase during which they may re-enter the country.  This is the cutoff phase.   All employers are mandated to use e-verify to ensure their employees are in the country legally.  If someone is not in this country legally, then employers may not deduct their wages from their taxes.  This *should* eliminate the vast majority of those working illegally.  Combined with the cutoff of benefits, this should eliminate the majority of the draw for those in the country illegally.  Again, this would at most be a three month window.

Step four is the involuntary phase.  If you are in this country illegally, and you are caught, then you are automatically deported back to your country of origin.  There is no appeal, no delay, nothing.  You're bussed to the border, shoved out the gate, and it's slammed behind you.  Permanently.  If you are deported during phase four, you may never re-enter this country.  No temporary visas, no work visas, nothing.  You are permanently persona non grata.  Have family here in the US?  Too bad.  Should have left during the voluntary phases.   There is no appeal, no waiver.  If you apply for a visa, it is summarily denied without further review.

Basically put, it's a matter of eliminating the reward, and increasing the risk.  At most, you've got six months to get your ass back across the border if you ever want the opportunity to re-enter the US (hence the importance of the wall as step 1).   
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2017, 08:25:50 AM »
Quote
Step four is the involuntary phase.  If you are in this country illegally, and you are caught, then you are automatically deported back to your country of origin.  There is no appeal, no delay, nothing.  You're bussed to the border, shoved out the gate, and it's slammed behind you.  Permanently.  If you are deported during phase four, you may never re-enter this country.  No temporary visas, no work visas, nothing.  You are permanently persona non grata.  Have family here in the US?  Too bad.  Should have left during the voluntary phases.   There is no appeal, no waiver.  If you apply for a visa, it is summarily denied without further review.

Here is my suggestion for Step 4A
If after being deported under step 4 and are subsequently caught on US soil you are subject to "High Altitude Repatriation(HAR)".
Flown to country of origin and ejected from aircraft over closest uninhabited spot to point of origin after being tagged with an embossed metal plate with ID and reason for HAR.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2017, 12:08:30 AM »

It sounds good but can it be done?


No. There's no way it can work. The author happily glosses over the problem of under-the-table payments, phony social security cards, and several other aspects of the problem.
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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2017, 01:42:55 PM »
Flown to country of origin and ejected from aircraft over closest uninhabited spot to point of origin after being tagged with an embossed metal plate with ID and reason for HAR.

With or without parachute?
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just Warren

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2017, 03:14:41 PM »
No. There's no way it can work. The author happily glosses over the problem of under-the-table payments, phony social security cards, and several other aspects of the problem.

It might go a long way towards employing Americans though, even if it doesn't totally solve the illegals problem.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2017, 04:29:42 PM »
I don't understand how illegals can take "regular" jobs today, anyway. I think for the past 20 years or so, any time I've started a new job I have been required tro show proof that I'm legally allowed to work in the United States. What am I missing?
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lupinus

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Re: Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2017, 04:38:42 PM »
I don't understand how illegals can take "regular" jobs today, anyway. I think for the past 20 years or so, any time I've started a new job I have been required tro show proof that I'm legally allowed to work in the United States. What am I missing?
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just Warren

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2017, 04:52:40 PM »
I don't understand how illegals can take "regular" jobs today, anyway. I think for the past 20 years or so, any time I've started a new job I have been required tro show proof that I'm legally allowed to work in the United States. What am I missing?

A traitorous special interest group working on your behalf? 
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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2017, 08:58:28 PM »
I don't understand how illegals can take "regular" jobs today, anyway. I think for the past 20 years or so, any time I've started a new job I have been required to show proof that I'm legally allowed to work in the United States. What am I missing?

Showing of proof doesn't work so well, obviously.  It was just a few years ago that I read about a bunch of illegals busted working as aircraft mechanics at the Charlotte, NC airport.  I read about it in a newspaper.  As I was waiting for a flight out of the Charlotte airport.
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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 12:20:30 PM »
I don't understand how illegals can take "regular" jobs today, anyway. I think for the past 20 years or so, any time I've started a new job I have been required tro show proof that I'm legally allowed to work in the United States. What am I missing?

The majority of illegal aliens who work have fake ids / SS cards.  This is a felony, but no one cares.

The gov runs a program called e-verify where employees can check and see if the SS numbers are valid.  Participation is not mandatory.  Making it mandatory would greatly help drive out illegal aliens.

Congress has refused to do this, for obvious reasons.

Scout26

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 12:52:10 PM »
Tuckerr debates a VP of Goldman Sachs who used a made-up SSN to get her job.   Why is she not in jail ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjR3xLN6IyA
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Sindawe

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Re: I've become a lot more restrictionist when it comes to immigration.
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 03:38:44 PM »
Here is my suggestion for Step 4A
If after being deported under step 4 and are subsequently caught on US soil you are subject to "High Altitude Repatriation(HAR)".
Flown to country of origin and ejected from aircraft over closest uninhabited spot to point of origin after being tagged with an embossed metal plate with ID and reason for HAR.

Too extreme for mainstream America.  Life in a penal colony might go over better.

Of course, we would have to HAVE a penal colony available.  It should someplace nigh impossible to get back from on one's own.  If only we had such a place in reach....



 
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