« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die  (Read 21772 times)

GigaBuist

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,345
    • http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2017, 11:00:33 PM »
Quote from: Amy Schumer on July 07, 2017, 09:57:43 PM
waves at Microbalrog  =D =D =D =D

Yeah, dead sisters are SO FUNNY! =D =D =D =D

Report to moderator   Logged

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2017, 09:37:14 PM »
Quote from: GigaBuist on July 08, 2017, 11:00:33 PM
Yeah, dead sisters are SO FUNNY! =D =D =D =D



??

Druggie relative?
Report to moderator   Logged
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

TechMan

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,562
  • Yes, your moderation has been outsourced.
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2017, 09:54:07 PM »
Report to moderator   Logged
Quote
Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

Quote
Viking - The problem with the modern world is that there aren't really any predators eating stupid people.

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2017, 10:07:31 PM »
Report to moderator   Logged
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2017, 06:43:48 AM »
Quote from: Andiron on July 09, 2017, 10:07:31 PM
Uhh.. Hail Satan?   

WTF.

The devil's hail.  It comes from a hell of a thunderstorm. 
Report to moderator   Logged
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2017, 06:58:32 AM »
He correctly pointed out that if there were no drug war, the odds would be much better of his parents having seen his sister as a human being and helped her.

It would sure be nice if our policy on drugs was not a moral one but somewhat medicine based. Most of this crap about letting junkies die flows from the belief that it's morally wrong for people to be stoned. Bizarre. Totally bizarre.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,573
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2017, 08:56:02 AM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
He correctly pointed out that if there were no drug war, the odds would be much better of his parents having seen his sister as a human being and helped her.

It would sure be nice if our policy on drugs was not a moral one but somewhat medicine based. Most of this crap about letting junkies die flows from the belief that it's morally wrong for people to be stoned. Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

Hey, wow.  I agree with De Delby.
Report to moderator   Logged
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2017, 03:21:40 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
He correctly pointed out that if there were no drug war, the odds would be much better of his parents having seen his sister as a human being and helped her.

It would sure be nice if our policy on drugs was not a moral one but somewhat medicine based. Most of this crap about letting junkies die flows from the belief that it's morally wrong for people to be stoned. Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

It also treats being an addict as a moral failing, rather than a medical issue.
Report to moderator   Logged

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,393
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2017, 03:31:08 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
Most of this crap about letting junkies die flows from the belief that it's morally wrong for people to be stoned. Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

Why is it bizarre for that to be seen as a moral failing, especially when it has risk of harm to oneself, or others? If you don't agree with that view, that's one thing, but why do you call it bizarre?


Quote from: Firethorn on July 10, 2017, 03:21:40 PM
It also treats being an addict as a moral failing, rather than a medical issue.

It can't be both?
Report to moderator   Logged
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2017, 04:30:56 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
Most of this crap about letting junkies die flows from the belief that it's morally wrong for people to be stoned. Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

Speaking for myself, I don't have any objection to someone who gets drunk, stoned, high, or whatever.  My objection is about people who get high and then need others to rescue them.  Or demand someone saves them.  Or, when the stoner does get saved, he goes on a rampage against the people who saved his worthless life.

You want to get high on whatever chemical concoction that can be dreamed up?  Go ahead.  I won't try to stop you, but I sure as *expletive deleted*it won't lift a finger to help you either.
Report to moderator   Logged
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

castle key

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 618
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2017, 08:20:18 PM »
For consistency, should a person be resuscitated after a cardiac arrest if he is found to have high cholesterol from poor diet choices? Pretty much the same decision process but at a much slower pace.

Public policy makers all have a right to an opinion about the constituency's morality and lifestyle choice. That opinion shouldn't get entangled in the resulting policy.

What we support today, as it meets our values, may become problematic when a different ideological clique is in a position to make policy that conflicts with ours.
Report to moderator   Logged
Vigilate hoc, tenendum per ebrietatem.

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2017, 09:57:02 PM »
Quote from: fistful on July 10, 2017, 03:31:08 PM
Why is it bizarre for that to be seen as a moral failing, especially when it has risk of harm to oneself, or others? If you don't agree with that view, that's one thing, but why do you call it bizarre?


It can't be both?

No. Calling it both is equivalent to calling schizophrenia or Alzheimer's a moral failing. The whole medical issue with addiction is that it short circuits choice, and it's hard to imagine a moral issue about which people have no choice.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2017, 09:58:12 PM »
Quote from: Fly320s on July 10, 2017, 04:30:56 PM
Speaking for myself, I don't have any objection to someone who gets drunk, stoned, high, or whatever.  My objection is about people who get high and then need others to rescue them.  Or demand someone saves them.  Or, when the stoner does get saved, he goes on a rampage against the people who saved his worthless life.

You want to get high on whatever chemical concoction that can be dreamed up?  Go ahead.  I won't try to stop you, but I sure as *expletive deleted*it won't lift a finger to help you either.

Do you feel the same way about mountain or wilderness rescues? "You choose to go out hunting, f you if you sprain your ankle and can't get out."

I doubt that you do. And there's my point: moralising about being high is the cause of this. There's no swell of people clamouring for those in other recreational pursuits to be left to die.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2017, 10:14:11 PM »
Quote from: Fly320s on July 10, 2017, 06:43:48 AM
The devil's hail.  It comes from a hell of a thunderstorm. 

 :laugh:

Obligatory "damn you autocorrect", but I didn't think past quoting the rage guy.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,393
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2017, 10:34:34 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 09:57:02 PM
No. Calling it both is equivalent to calling schizophrenia or Alzheimer's a moral failing. The whole medical issue with addiction is that it short circuits choice, and it's hard to imagine a moral issue about which people have no choice.

Just to clarify, if a person uses drugs recreationally, and becomes addicted, you think they're morally equivalent to an Alzheimer's patient? Or are you talking, I hope, about people that became addicted to their prescription pain medication?

And to clarify from your earlier post, if I said that getting high is a moral failing, you wouldn't find that bizarre? It's just if I were talking about the resulting addiction as a moral failing?


For my own part, I see no reason to believe there is a great gulf fixed between the moral and the medical. A person can incur medical issues from their choices. For example, a firefighter that saves a child from a burning building, but suffers lasting complications from the fumes of the meth lab that started the fire. It's not a stretch to say that his heroism contributed to his medical problems, is it? Flip it around, and it can make sense to say that an addiction is both medical, and the result of a moral failing, yes? Or why not?
Report to moderator   Logged
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2017, 05:10:26 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 10, 2017, 09:58:12 PM
Do you feel the same way about mountain or wilderness rescues? "You choose to go out hunting, f you if you sprain your ankle and can't get out."

I doubt that you do. And there's my point: moralising about being high is the cause of this. There's no swell of people clamouring for those in other recreational pursuits to be left to die.


Actually, I do think the same way about wilderness rescues.  Both are choices made by the individual that have high risks if something goes wrong.  The difference is that a person going off into the wilderness usually takes reasonable precautions with risks.  The risks are known and can be mitigated while still enjoying the hike or whatever.  A reasonable amateur hiker won't try climbing Everest, but a reasonable well trained hiker could tackle Everest.

On the other hand, a drug user may know the risks, and may know how to mitigate them to an extent, but there is no way the druggie will be able to tell how potent the drug is.  He can't tell how dangerous the hike is before he ingests the drug.  His favorite dealer may say this batch of heroin is like a walk in a meadow, but it turns out that batch is like jumping off Everest.  A reasonable person wouldn't do that. 

Report to moderator   Logged
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2017, 05:24:10 PM »
Why should a drug addict get something for free that will save their life when a cancer patient has to pay for their drugs to stay alive?
Report to moderator   Logged
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Fitz

  • Face-melter
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,254
  • Floyd Rose is my homeboy
    • My Book
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2017, 05:50:16 PM »
I hope that those who view getting high as a moral failing also eat healthy food and avoid alcohol.


because anyone who believed that, and ate cheeseburgers or drank beer is a complete hypocrite.




Anyways. It's already been covered above. the war on drugs is a complete failure. It's created way more problems than it's solved.
Report to moderator   Logged
Fitz

---------------
I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2017, 07:19:19 PM »
Quote from: Fly320s on July 11, 2017, 05:10:26 PM
Actually, I do think the same way about wilderness rescues.  Both are choices made by the individual that have high risks if something goes wrong.  The difference is that a person going off into the wilderness usually takes reasonable precautions with risks.  The risks are known and can be mitigated while still enjoying the hike or whatever.  A reasonable amateur hiker won't try climbing Everest, but a reasonable well trained hiker could tackle Everest.

On the other hand, a drug user may know the risks, and may know how to mitigate them to an extent, but there is no way the druggie will be able to tell how potent the drug is.  He can't tell how dangerous the hike is before he ingests the drug.  His favorite dealer may say this batch of heroin is like a walk in a meadow, but it turns out that batch is like jumping off Everest.  A reasonable person wouldn't do that. 



So just to be clear, you oppose public funding for wilderness rescue?? Or you think that's okay because those are "smart" risks whereas drug use is not a smart risk?
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2017, 07:21:06 PM »
Quote from: wmenorr67 on July 11, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
Why should a drug addict get something for free that will save their life when a cancer patient has to pay for their drugs to stay alive?

This is moralising. Obviously cancer patients who collapse on the street get treatment if available.

The controversy here is that we'd do the same thing for people who collapse from drugs. The only possible basis for saying we shouldn't is moralising about drugs.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,393
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2017, 08:57:09 PM »
Quote from: Fitz on July 11, 2017, 05:50:16 PM
I hope that those who view getting high as a moral failing also eat healthy food and avoid alcohol.

because anyone who believed that, and ate cheeseburgers or drank beer is a complete hypocrite.

Anyways. It's already been covered above. the war on drugs is a complete failure. It's created way more problems than it's solved.


I was unaware that moral disapproval of recreational drug use was incompatible with having compassion for those who partake, or with diverting the community's resources to them.

I was further unaware that moral disapproval is inseparable from wanting to ban vice.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2017, 08:57:51 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 11, 2017, 07:19:19 PM
So just to be clear, you oppose public funding for wilderness rescue?? Or you think that's okay because those are "smart" risks whereas drug use is not a smart risk?

I oppose the public funding.  The individual should pay for the services that saved him.
Report to moderator   Logged
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,393
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2017, 09:01:22 PM »
Also, one may as well point out that the Bible criticizes drunkenness in both the Old and New-fangled Testaments. Which I think can be safely extrapolated to drug abuse, generally.

Which doesn't mean anyone has to believe it. I'm just sayin...
Report to moderator   Logged
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2017, 09:30:47 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on July 11, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
This is moralising. Obviously cancer patients who collapse on the street get treatment if available.

The controversy here is that we'd do the same thing for people who collapse from drugs. The only possible basis for saying we shouldn't is moralising about drugs.

What about the druggies that get free methadone?
Report to moderator   Logged
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,835
Re: The first two doses of Narcan are free, the third time, you die
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2017, 09:38:10 PM »
Quote from: wmenorr67 on July 11, 2017, 09:30:47 PM
What about the druggies that get free methadone?

Totally different to what we're talking about here and comes with its own upsides and downsides.
Report to moderator   Logged
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
« previous next »