Boy Scouts are the new Hitler Youth...

[T.O.M.]

http://www.newsweek.com/hitler-trump-germany-nazi-president-641392

Apparently, after the Trump speech at the Scout Jamboree, the left has taken to comparing the Boy Scouts to the Hitler Youth.  The BSA, which has now opened the membership to homosexuals, transgender, and is on the verge of making the program co-ed across the board, is now in the sights of the left as a recruiting pool for Trump and his views.  Between the changes in membership, the pull-out of LDS from the program, and now this, I'll be surprised if the BSA survives.

[Ben]

Anybody not see this coming once Trump agreed to talk to the scouts?

While Trump probably shouldn't have gone so political in his speech, people don't need to take it out on the scouts. I mean, really - we're expecting the scouts to boo the POTUS? I see that many if not most of the "Hitler youth" stuff is coming from the usual celebrity and rich liberal knuckleheads, so once again, this is how you get Trump.

[makattak]

http://www.newsweek.com/hitler-trump-germany-nazi-president-641392

Apparently, after the Trump speech at the Scout Jamboree, the left has taken to comparing the Boy Scouts to the Hitler Youth.  The BSA, which has now opened the membership to homosexuals, transgender, and is on the verge of making the program co-ed across the board, is now in the sights of the left as a recruiting pool for Trump and his views.  Between the changes in membership, the pull-out of LDS from the program, and now this, I'll be surprised if the BSA survives.

Surprisingly the left isn't wearing the skin of the Boy Scouts and demanding respect after they gutted it. They just want it dead. That's surprisingly out of character, their hatred for the formerly great institution must have been especially strong.

Also, good reminder that caving to the left never gets you respect, it only loses you your strongest defenders. Good job, BSA!

[Perd Hapley]

Also, good reminder that caving to the left never gets you respect, it only loses you your strongest defenders. Good job, BSA!

This. If you knuckle under one inch; they will demand that you low-crawl for a mile. Or you're a fascist.

[Pb]

Catering to your enemies instead of your friends is a poor policy, as several gun companies have learned.

[T.O.M.]

And the hit (pieces) just keep coming!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/28/time-has-come-for-every-red-blooded-god-loving-patriot-to-sever-ties-with-boy-scouts-america.html

Long and short, a good American will quit BSA and send their kids to Trail Life USA, a Christian based, Christian focused outdoor program.  Yeah.  Sure. 

[makattak]

And the hit (pieces) just keep coming!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/28/time-has-come-for-every-red-blooded-god-loving-patriot-to-sever-ties-with-boy-scouts-america.html

Long and short, a good American will quit BSA and send their kids to Trail Life USA, a Christian based, Christian focused outdoor program.  Yeah.  Sure.  

That's exactly what this Eagle scout is doing. Boy Scouts have surrendered and will only continue to do debase the organization. As the most important purpose of any such organization is the physical, mental, and spiritual development of my son*, I'm not about to use him to fight a fight that the organization is determined to fold on.

I've seen this movie play out with the Girl Scouts already and I'd rather not be subjected to it happening when I can avoid it.


*You, of course, are free to substitute your own progeny here.

[Perd Hapley]

That's exactly what this Eagle scout is doing. Boy Scouts have surrendered and will only continue to do debase the organization. As the most important purpose of any such organization is the physical, mental, and spiritual development of my son*, I'm not about to use him to fight a fight that the organization is determined to fold on.

I've seen this movie play out with the Girl Scouts already and I'd rather not be subjected to it happening when I can avoid it.


*You, of course, are free to substitute your own progeny here.

So it's like the public schools. Some parents think they need to get their kids safely out; some think they and their kids need to stay and fight the good fight. There is no one right answer for everyone. Use your own judgment.

[Scout26]

Yep, American Heritage girls are rapidly growing and expanding, while Girl Scouts are rapidly declining (hence the upcoming merger with BSA).  And Trail Life is growing as well.  The Mormon Church is in the process of developing their own Scouting Program to take over once the BSA/GSA merger takes place.  They already have their own Teen Programs for their youth in lieu of BSA's Co-Ed Venturing program. And the Mormon Church is probably the largest contingent of the BSA.

Bullet meet foot.

[T.O.M.]

Yep, American Heritage girls are rapidly growing and expanding, while Girl Scouts are rapidly declining (hence the upcoming merger with BSA).  And Trail Life is growing as well.  The Mormon Church is in the process of developing their own Scouting Program to take over once the BSA/GSA merger takes place.  They already have their own Teen Programs for their youth in lieu of BSA's Co-Ed Venturing program. And the Mormon Church is probably the largest contingent of the BSA.

Bullet meet foot.

From what I'm hearing, LDS has the program ready to roll, and will be starting it fully in the next year or two.  The merger between BSA and GSA may have hit a snag...fighting over, of all things cookies and the trademarks GSA holds on the cookies.  Don't want to share with BSA.

All I know is this, I've got a troop of 40 Scouts who don't give a crap about any of the national policies or politics.  They want to camp, hang out together, and learn some stuff they don't teach in school.  For now, I'll keep working with them, and other local units, because it's worth it.  Screw national.  We'll be at the camfire.

[zxcvbob]

Is anything left of GSA besides cookie sales?  Seriously, I think that's all they do.

[T.O.M.]

Is anything left of GSA besides cookie sales?  Seriously, I think that's all they do.

A friend who is a GSA troop leader has her Scouts do more than sell cookies, but they do spend a fair amount of time selling cookies.

[Scout26]

Is anything left of GSA besides cookie sales?  Seriously, I think that's all they do.

That's what has my local GSA leader up in arms.  She says the program (and all the supporting documents, guide, binders, etc.) that the BSA provides to the leaders is light years ahead of what the GSA provides.  Especially at the Cub Scout level, and the GSA provides nothing like that.

I've heard the Cookie issue has been resolved.  Since I'm a Unit Commissioner, I got an email that basically said "It's coming next year!"  We have a Council Combined Committees Meeting this Saturday.  I expect to find out more.

[T.O.M.]

That's what has my local GSA leader up in arms.  She says the program (and all the supporting documents, guide, binders, etc.) that the BSA provides to the leaders is light years ahead of what the GSA provides.  Especially at the Cub Scout level, and the GSA provides nothing like that.

I've heard the Cookie issue has been resolved.  Since I'm a Unit Commissioner, I got an email that basically said "It's coming next year!"  We have a Council Combined Committees Meeting this Saturday.  I expect to find out more.

I'm guessing you have better contacts than I do.  I'm just hearing from friends who volunteer at district/council level.  Cookie money would be a nice addition, not that we'll need it the way things are going...

[K Frame]

Is anything left of GSA besides cookie sales?  Seriously, I think that's all they do.

Very much so!

They have a very active program for liberal political indoctrination and LBQTCISXEIEIOism.

[Sideways_8]

Yep, American Heritage girls are rapidly growing and expanding, while Girl Scouts are rapidly declining (hence the upcoming merger with BSA).  And Trail Life is growing as well.  The Mormon Church is in the process of developing their own Scouting Program to take over once the BSA/GSA merger takes place.  They already have their own Teen Programs for their youth in lieu of BSA's Co-Ed Venturing program. And the Mormon Church is probably the largest contingent of the BSA.

Bullet meet foot.

The Mormon Church pulling out will likely be the nail in the coffin for the BSA.

[makattak]

The Mormon Church pulling out will likely be the nail in the coffin for the BSA.

The GSA has been limping along for decades. I'm quite certain the BSA can survive just as well!

[Scout26]

I'm guessing you have better contacts than I do.  I'm just hearing from friends who volunteer at district/council level.  Cookie money would be a nice addition, not that we'll need it the way things are going...

I forwarded you the email I got as a Commissioner.  They want us spun up so that when this happens we can "help" our units.

[RevDisk]

Folks here know I'm generally socially liberal. And my take is, the BSA were morons for giving in to demands of an extreme minority of marginal scouts. Yes, I'm aware it's hard for an organization to fight off legal battles of dozens of angry activists. But they should have dug in their heels. WHILE offering to help support special scouts for whatever niche group. "You want Scouts to accept Apache attack helicopters as a valid alternative gender? Fine. You're now the Apache Helicopter Scout Troop #1. Have a nice day. Insurance premiums are $10,000. Due net 30 or your chapter is disbanded."

By giving in not just to SJW but every Safety Gestapo and Tile Crawler Sue Happy lawyers to serve them papers, they gutted themselves. They could have tried to get a legal shield, like the gun manufacturers did. Instead, they caved and caved and caved. Until except for a handful of well led troops, their numbers dropped like a rock. Lawfare and poor leadership killed the Scouts. I'm sure the name and brand will survive for couple more decades.

Freedom of association sure has taken a beating over the last couple decades. Take any association with any substantial meaning, and try to reduce it to the lowest, most meaningless common denominator while crying a river over individual edge cases that couldn't make the cut.

[Marnoot]

I forwarded you the email I got as a Commissioner.  They want us spun up so that when this happens we can "help" our units.

Could you PM a copy my way? I'm one of the leaders for the new/11 year-old scout patrol in our troop.

[Scout26]

Folks here know I'm generally socially liberal. And my take is, the BSA were morons for giving in to demands of an extreme minority of marginal scouts. Yes, I'm aware it's hard for an organization to fight off legal battles of dozens of angry activists. But they should have dug in their heels. WHILE offering to help support special scouts for whatever niche group. "You want Scouts to accept Apache attack helicopters as a valid alternative gender? Fine. You're now the Apache Helicopter Scout Troop #1. Have a nice day. Insurance premiums are $10,000. Due net 30 or your chapter is disbanded."

By giving in not just to SJW but every Safety Gestapo and Tile Crawler Sue Happy lawyers to serve them papers, they gutted themselves. They could have tried to get a legal shield, like the gun manufacturers did. Instead, they caved and caved and caved. Until except for a handful of well led troops, their numbers dropped like a rock. Lawfare and poor leadership killed the Scouts. I'm sure the name and brand will survive for couple more decades.

Freedom of association sure has taken a beating over the last couple decades. Take any association with any substantial meaning, and try to reduce it to the lowest, most meaningless common denominator while crying a river over individual edge cases that couldn't make the cut.

The real battle was before that.  The "No Gay Leaders" fight.    The problem wasn't ideology, but money.  United Way which had provided about 25% of BSA's (Local through National) operating funds, pulled their funding.  Other large corporate donors did the same.  The total loss to the BSA was between 50% and 75% depending on location.

And yes, the Lawfare, both "Inclusion" and "Safety", also decimated many BSA coffers (along with the sexual abuse cases that came out).   While other areas are shrinking in membership, the units in the western Suburbs are actually growing.  We increase by 3-5% each year.  That's both district (currently at 65 units), and Council (9 districts).

[Scout26]

Could you PM a copy my way? I'm one of the leaders for the new/11 year-old scout patrol in our troop.

I emailed it to you, too big/graphics for a PM.

[MillCreek]

Amy has an interesting point about the sex abuse cases.  I had read an analysis of the large number of claims to date and the insurance litigation in some of my legal/risk journals.  I always thought it was interesting about the issues over gay Scouts/leaders in view of the number of cases and payouts involving straight white male leaders abusing male Scouts.  In terms of actual legal cases and payouts, the Scouting leadership time would have been more profitably spent on weeding out the pedophiles than worrying about the gays.  One of my neighbors is a Scouting leader, and he tells me about all the training on this he now has to take, and he is supposed to rarely, if ever, be alone with a Scout because of all this.

[T.O.M.]

Amy has an interesting point about the sex abuse cases.  I had read an analysis of the large number of claims to date and the insurance litigation in some of my legal/risk journals.  I always thought it was interesting about the issues over gay Scouts/leaders in view of the number of cases and payouts involving straight white male leaders abusing male Scouts.  In terms of actual legal cases and payouts, the Scouting leadership time would have been more profitably spent on weeding out the pedophiles than worrying about the gays.  One of my neighbors is a Scouting leader, and he tells me about all the training on this he now has to take, and he is supposed to rarely, if ever, be alone with a Scout because of all this.

True.  They call it Two Deep Leadership, meaning there must be two adults present at all time with Scouts.  There's also a Buddy System, meaning that no adult can meet one on one with a Scout in private.  So, you do one-on-one meetings off to the side of a full meeting, within sight of everyone. 

Funny, a few years back, I was doing a child custody case, in which the father was a convicted child molester of two girls.  He was asking for custody of his son.  His argument?  He was a straight pedophile, not a gay one.

[Sideways_8]

Amy has an interesting point about the sex abuse cases.  I had read an analysis of the large number of claims to date and the insurance litigation in some of my legal/risk journals.  I always thought it was interesting about the issues over gay Scouts/leaders in view of the number of cases and payouts involving straight white male leaders abusing male Scouts.  In terms of actual legal cases and payouts, the Scouting leadership time would have been more profitably spent on weeding out the pedophiles than worrying about the gays.  One of my neighbors is a Scouting leader, and he tells me about all the training on this he now has to take, and he is supposed to rarely, if ever, be alone with a Scout because of all this.

That training is required I think nearly every year as well. I know I've taken it at least 4 times.