Author Topic: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?  (Read 2413 times)

French G.

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Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« on: July 27, 2017, 06:22:00 PM »
Just wondering if there is a place where you can get info on upper atmosphere "weather" and or sun activity. On my usual drive home I have my radio on a local FM poptart station because very little else comes in that is not country or 1970s rock. The station will usually be weak as I near my house, really weak early mornings; I am guessing it is turned down at nights to aid the search for aliens, I live on the edge of a radio quiet zone for the NRAO. Today that station picked up the regular station which proceeded to get stepped on by another pop station, a Bible station, a country station, and possibly one other. The country one was the only one I could ID from ad talk and it was out of Alexandria Lakes, Minnesota. And here I am in Western Virginia.  ??? [tinfoil]

I didn't think atmosphere bounce was a thing with FM. I used to pick up Midwest AM stations with my clock radio as a kid, but this was weird.
AKA Navy Joe   

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Ben

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 06:36:58 PM »
Here's a start:

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/

Try the dashboard first.
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Scout26

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 07:50:27 PM »
or 1970s rock.


What type of heathen are you ?!?!?!


I didn't think atmosphere bounce was a thing with FM. I used to pick up Midwest AM stations with my clock radio as a kid, but this was weird.


Once out on the Baumholder MTA I called into Range Control (35.80MHz new squelch ON) at night, and managed to get Dugway Proving Grounds.  Nothing like being told that there is no Training Area Juliet/Whiskey when you are standing right in the middle of it.
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Fly320s

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 07:50:50 PM »
I think NASA tracks solar flares.
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French G.

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 10:11:27 PM »


What type of heathen are you ?!?!?!



Once out on the Baumholder MTA I called into Range Control (35.80MHz new squelch ON) at night, and managed to get Dugway Proving Grounds.  Nothing like being told that there is no Training Area Juliet/Whiskey when you are standing right in the middle of it.

The type of heathen that doesn't ever want to hear the eagles again, or any of the other crap the old  rock stations play. Had a good station, played alt rock, metal, and a little  kill your mother, rape your cat new metal screaming stuff. You know, good music. They reformatted to light ro easy listening. Arrgh.

NOAA site is interesting. Any time I get weird radio stuff I figure that it is the aliens coming due to my location.
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230RN

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 12:13:58 AM »
There are radio dead spots unrelated to astronomical events.

Some are caused by the waves bouncing off building A canceling out the waves bouncing off Building B. Or mountains C and D.  Or wet trees.

Some dead spots are simply 'cause you're in a valley, bearing in mind that all radio transmissions are line-of-sight unless G-d or radio engineers or wet trees play around with them.

Picking up distant radio stations by a "skip" wave, where the signals bounce off various layers of the ionosphere with AM stations around one megahertz is fairly common, especially at night.  This condition may vary regularly in daylight versus nighttime hours.  "Skip" may also vary with the frequency of the transmitter at any given time.

You might be interested to know that except for satellite relaying, the only reason signals from, say the USA, can reach Europe and Russia is through this skip phenomenon.  In fact signals can be bounced back and forth between the ionosphere and the earth and can therefore can reach around the world so that the receiver picks up the transmitted signal a short time after it is sent.

DX, or "Long Distance" ham communication is very common on 20 meters (around 14 MHz), and this is called the  DX band among hams because propagation at those frequencies can usually be bounced off one or another of those ionized layers in the atmosphere.  (This is not to say that DX may not be achieved on other bands, but 20 meters is most often "open.")

At higher frequencies, the signals become less and less likely to bounce off the ionization layer and become more and more completely line-of-sight.  This is the case with FM radio stations from 88 to 108 MHz.  They are much more line of sight, but are more prone to bounce off earthly objects... they are more like radar in terms of ground based reflections.

This whole subject of radio propagation is an important test subject in the FCC examinations for various classes of radio licensing, including for the Amateur Radio Service, that is, "Ham" radio operators.

It's quite a complex subject.  This is kind of a generalized overview of the subject without going into things like the designations of the various layers of the ionosphere and how they are affected differently by solar conditions.

Terry, 230RN

REF (A more comprehensive view):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 05:55:30 PM by 230RN »

230RN

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 06:05:31 PM »
ETA:
"The station will usually be weak as I near my house, really weak early mornings; I am guessing it is turned down at nights to aid the search for aliens, I live on the edge of a radio quiet zone for the NRAO."

Yes, stations are sometimes required to drop their transmitting power at night.  This is because "skip" and other propagation effects during the night might make them interfere with other stations near or at their assigned frequency but which are outside their FCC-assigned listening area.

Sometimes that works, sometimes it don't.

There is or was a very high-powered station in Virginia which could regularly be heard at night here in Colorado.  The "skip" bounce angles and distance involved just happen to work out that way.

Here's a list of 50kW AM stations which you might try DXing (listening for):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_50_kW_AM_radio_stations_in_the_United_States

Fifty kW is the highest power allowed for commercial radio stations in the U.S.  There is also a set of hobbyists who collect reception cards from various long distance radio and TV stations. 


« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 06:36:25 PM by 230RN »

RocketMan

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 11:35:18 PM »
Regarding your list of 50KW stations, 230RN, I once heard KEX out of Portland, OR when I was aboard an LST in the south Pacific, somewhere near Kwajalein.  I was a Marine on a float to Australia, and had been asked to help out in the radio room aboard ship.
I had some free time now and again and would play around with an old R-390A receiver they had.  Lots of fun on what would have normally been a rather boring boat ride at the time.
KEX was the station my mother always listened to when I was a kid living in Portland.
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230RN

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 02:26:50 PM »
Ah, yes, the good old Collins receivers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-390A

Note this:

Quote
Many of the R-390As that exist today are in the hands of vintage amateur radio collectors and amateur radio operators who contend that few modern solid state communications receivers can equal its performance.

My Son1 has what I believe is the original 390, which conists of  a separate humongous 110VAC power supply plus the receiver itself.  That receiver even  has mechanical IF filters in it, which were originally developed by Collns.

Typifies the expression "boat anchor" radio equipment.

Bearing in mind what I said about radio propagation being a complex matter, your receiving that station could be a result of "skip," directly receiving scattered reflections, or surface waves along the highly conductive sea water.

Also the fact that there was possibly a highly directional antenna involved aboard the Navy ship as well as excellent contact with the "ground," meaning the salty ocean.  

Antenna engineers take a lot of effort to thoroughly ground (or "earth," in British parlance) the radio equipment.

And I don't mean connected to a cold water pipe.  I mean with a radial pattern of conductors actually buried in the earth.  (Amusing, but seriously, it is sometime recommended that in dry weather, the ham operator should go out and pee on his radial grounding system.)

In addition to all this, the Collins receivers were well-known for their sensitivity and selectivity.

Or it could have been a combination of all these factors.

It's tricky stuff.

Terry, 230RN

REF (Jes' 'cause it's interesting):

http://www.wa3key.com/filters.html

Contains a picture of the stacked, tuned iron slugs of a mechanical filter.

Mechanical filters are based on a little known property of ferrous and some other metals known as magnetostriction.  That is, they shrink or change shape slightly under the influence of a magnetic field:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostriction

With the correct shaping and stacking of pieces of magnetostrictive materials, a very highly selective electronic filter can be produced.  Thus the Collins "mechanical filter."

The action is similar to that of a quartz crystal filter, which is based on the crystal's bending and warping under an electric field, but IIRC, shaping the iron elements is a lot cheaper and faster than grinding a quartz filter and has some other advantages.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 03:22:54 PM by 230RN »

RocketMan

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 01:26:46 PM »
I've actually got an R-390a in my basement shop.  It worked last when I lived in Colorado Springs, and it worked really well.  Alas, a tube in it has died. I need to rebuild my Hickok 580A tube tester so that it works and I can then figure out which tube is dead in the R-390.

One of my college instructors was an engineer at KEX many moons ago (and an Advanced class ham operator, though he is a SK now).  He told some cool stories about some of the fun they had in the sixties running around the transmitter site at night with long fluorescent tubes in their hands.  They always timed their fun for when the late night westbound passenger trains were passing by on their way into Portland.  (The tracks are near the south side of the transmitter site.) That made for some funny stories in the local paper about "the haunted field over near Sunnyside".
It's a three bay vertical directional antenna array, beaming to the southwest, which may explain why I could hear it in the South Pacific.
I lived not too far away from the KEX transmitter site at that time, and could hear the station on our landline phone on occasion.  I should have done some decoupling on that line.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

230RN

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2017, 01:56:38 PM »
What are the symptoms?

Probability is good that a tube got loose in moving it.

First, check to see if they all light up.  Then disconnect from power and one by one pull them out and push them back in.

Turn on and test again. Make sure you have some kind of at least rudimentary antenna  on --even a 10' hunk of wire stuck into the SO 259 antenna socket. Make sure it's actually getting power (check fuses). Make sure all the switches and control knobs are set appropriately. RF gains, squelches, and the like.

Beyond that, repair your tube tester or get another one.  Contact your local amateur radio club and see if anyone can help, or might even have a tube tester.  My son has at least two of them l and may be looking to get rid of them since he's doing a long distance move.  (Along with an older Collins 390.)

Beyond even that, cast about for a manual.  (The one I had, IIRC, even had instructions for destruction in a war zone authorized by secretary of war Stinson.)

No kiddin', when I was involved in a TV repair shop, most many of the problems with TV sets of those days were either loose tubes or the damned things got unplugged from the wall.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:16:20 PM by 230RN »

RocketMan

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2017, 02:33:38 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Terry.  Actually, I'm an old radio guy, with both commercial and amateur radio licenses (Got my FCC 1st Class Radiotelephone license back when it was still a thing.  Had to have it to work in broadcasting on the technical side.)  I cut my teeth on tube gear but came along at the right time to make an easy transition to the solid state world.
While I do like modern solid-state and digital gear, there is something about the warmth and atmosphere of tube equipment.  I guess I kind of miss the glow behind the dials.
I wish it was something as simple as a loose tube.  It actually died on my radio desk when I was still in Colorado Springs.  One day it worked, the next day it didn't.  I just haven't gotten around to fixing it or the tube tester.
I really need to get the tube tester going.  I've got half a notion to find a way to make money with it.  Maybe matching tubes for audiophiles or something.
Plus, I think refurbishing it would be an interesting project for its own sake.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

230RN

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Re: Any websites for info on electromagnetic weather?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 05:23:56 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Terry.  Actually, I'm an old radio guy, with both commercial and amateur radio licenses (Got my FCC 1st Class Radiotelephone license back when it was still a thing.  Had to have it to work in broadcasting on the technical side.)  I cut my teeth on tube gear but came along at the right time to make an easy transition to the solid state world.

While I do like modern solid-state and digital gear, there is something about the warmth and atmosphere of tube equipment.  I guess I kind of miss the glow behind the dials.

Yeah, that last reminded me of my Pop, who learned a lot of electronics in the Navy between the two world wars.  He used to take me shopping for parts in Manhattan's "radio row" on Van Cortland Street, which had a bunch of radio stores all on that one street.  There actually was one named "Radio Shack," unrelated to the Radio Shack we knew of nowadays.  That part of the street is now gone, having been replaced by the "Twin Towers" of 9/11 infamy and is now just the 9-11 Memorial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Row#Demolition

I remember we visited a ham friend of his and that operator had a home-built high power station.  The home-built xmtr was single-ended with the quart-sized tube final enclosed in stovepipe which went up almost to the ceiling for convection cooling.  The guy had a hatch on the piping which you could open and see the tube glowing.  I recall that he was running it full blast into a dummy load consisting of the carbons from those old huge dry cells like the one in this apparatus:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Quack-Medical-Electro-Therapy-Device-with-Vintage-Battery-/302404051387

I don't think he was running a full gallon*, but the plate was running slightly red.  I still remember that incident with Kodachrome clarity.  I don't know what, if any, licensing Pop had, but from various remarks he spent a lot of time in ships' radio rooms.  Including, I gathered, on a sailing ship.

Anyhow, Pop was accumulating parts for an oscilloscope but he died before getting very far with it.  I still remember, years later, when we moved out of that house, putting the XXX P? cathode ray tube he was going to use for the o-scope in the trash.  Brought tears to my eyes.

"Thanks for the advice, Terry  Actually, I'm an old radio guy, with both commercial and amateur radio licenses..."  Heh.  I guess you don't need any advice from me, but I'm still curious as to the symptoms.

But it's good to know there's someone around who can correct any "misrememberings" I might post.  Over 78-79 years there's a lot of memories that bubble up to this wrinkled old cortex which might have got blurred.

Not really active in ham stuff any more except for 2 meters --my last ARRL Handbook is from 1989.

But I still mull it around.

Terry

* 1000 Watts, the legal power limit for ham transmitters.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:25:29 PM by 230RN »