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Author Topic: Melting down artifacts in Sweden?  (Read 1807 times)
MechAg94
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« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2017, 07:54:36 AM »

"And if it were like legal hunting in Africa, then wouldn't be these problems. Legal hunting make Poaching impractical, because the animals become a local asset instead of a local liability.  (US importation laws are beyond stupid and do nothing to help either the African people and/or animals.) "

Oh really?

There's legal hunting in Africa, and in the exact same places there's poaching going on for the same animals.

Your argument doesn't work because the people who want the commodity from the animal (ivory is the biggie) don't feel like going on a safari and playing Bush Bwana. They just want the commodity, and don't give a *expletive deleted*it how they get it.




"Not quite the same.  The thriving black market in cigarettes and alcohol is because of taxes.  Cigarettes are now $12 a pack in Chicago."

That's hyperparsing and niggling the concept, playing contortionist to "make" your untrue argument somehow true. Your argument is Open Market equals End of Illegal Activity!

That's crap and you know.
Every big game hunter and guide disagrees with you.  When Zimbabwe shut down hunting, the lost the funding for the game wardens and gangs of Somalis were coming in and slaughtering elephants.  Animals that are legally hunted often thrive because hunters and others have an incentive to maintain habitat and restrict poaching.  It works in the US and it has worked in Africa also.
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
MechAg94
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« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2017, 07:57:26 AM »

I was thinking the people destroying the artifacts could sell them with certificates/letters stating what they were and where they were found.  To some it would be like owning a CMP Garand.  Sure, not all the artifacts would be wanted, but many would be bought and the funds would help keep the legitimate researchers funded. 

I generally disagree with banning stuff.  There is usually a perfectly good market solution that would accomplish the same thing with much less overbearing govt regulation. 
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
cordex
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« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2017, 09:35:51 AM »

That's hyperparsing and niggling the concept, playing contortionist to "make" your untrue argument somehow true. Your argument is Open Market equals End of Illegal Activity!

That's crap and you know.
Does "Closed Market equal End of Illegal Activity!!!!"?
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HankB
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« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2017, 12:54:03 PM »

Mike's argument wrt hunting & poaching is as much nonsense as his pro-destruction arguments for antiquities to keep them out of the hands of people other than government-approved archaeologists.

Properly run sport hunting in Africa gives animals legitimate value to the local people; by getting a cut of the license and trophy fees, they see tangible benefits - benefits they DON'T get from organized poaching rings. So they tend to see poachers as the enemy, and are less tolerant of their activities. This doesn't end 100% of poaching of course, but it sure cuts it down, as I've personally seen and heard in places like Zimbabwe and Zambia.

Destroying ancient artifacts because someone else might want other, more valuable artifacts? Absurd. I think someone used the term "Cultural Vandalism" - how apropos.

And it somehow seems like something you'd get from the Taliban, not modern, progressive Swedes.
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agricola
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« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2017, 04:22:01 PM »

Destroying or stealing antiquities (as in not publicizing the fact that you have found them and in what context) is a daft idea and anyone that promotes it is a moron.

To illustrate how moronic it is, in 1833, two and a bit miles from where I would grow up, a group of men building a road thought it would be easier to rob stone from a nearby tumulus than to haul it in.  They dug into the mound - called Bryn yr Ellyllon (Goblin's Hill) - and found what was later established to be the finest Bronze Age burial ever found in the UK.  The top half of the bones was covered in a gold mantle, with a scattering of amber beads and bronze strips in the rest of the tomb.  

They thought the best way to deal with this discovery was to cut the gold mantle - which has no parallel at all, in the entire world - into little bits, and (if local legend is to be believed) amused themselves by throwing the three-and-a-half-thousand year old amber beads into a fire; the bones and the rest of the grave are forever lost to us.  

It took later generations more than a hundred and fifty years to locate the various bits (they still do not have them all) and put the mantle back together.  The restored object is in the British Museum now, thankfully.



more here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/okZT5JiCTn6lYFR0Gs9Tbg



 
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BTR
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« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2017, 09:27:41 AM »

I asked a friend who is an archaeologist about this article.  She was horrified and said "No professional archaeologist would destroy artifacts."

She said artifacts they did not need they would send to others who could use them.

Good to know this is not normal, at least in the USA.
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RevDisk
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« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2017, 10:14:29 AM »

They thought the best way to deal with this discovery was to cut the gold mantle - which has no parallel at all, in the entire world - into little bits, and (if local legend is to be believed) amused themselves by throwing the three-and-a-half-thousand year old amber beads into a fire; the bones and the rest of the grave are forever lost to us.  

It took later generations more than a hundred and fifty years to locate the various bits (they still do not have them all) and put the mantle back together.  The restored object is in the British Museum now, thankfully.

It is a literal crime against humanity. Not just humanity that exists today, but every future humanity that will ever exist. Attempting to destroy priceless historical artifacts should be treated on par with genocide, as it is carried out generally for the same purposes. Starting with being an evil (insert swear word here) and going on to attempting to deny information to future generations. 
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