Author Topic: Really excellent discussion on another forum...  (Read 7043 times)

K Frame

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Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« on: September 01, 2017, 08:42:57 AM »
About the potential legal ramifications of tarting up your gun and then shooting someone with it, justified or not.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27448-Punisher-Skull-on-a-Self-Defense-Firearm


I've got to ask though... who in the frick puts something like that on a defensive gun? Well, other than the dudes who thinks that it's a perfect compliment to their size 76 waist camo pants...
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mtnbkr

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 08:59:10 AM »
Yeah, I've been watching that as well.

I get wanting a cosmetically appealing gun, they don't all have to be "srs bzness", but non-functional adjustments to carry guns should be carefully considered.  Anything that implies "I have violent tendencies" or "I fantasize about killing" needs to be dropped.  Too much of a liability...

Now, if you want to tart up your range toy, have at it.

Chris

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 09:07:21 AM »
I 100% agree with Chris, tart up your range toy, but leave your defensive weapon alone.

The poster at the bottom of the first page hits the nail on the head:
Quote
My take on it that humans are unpredictable, and there's no set answer - and it's more about probabilities and risk management. The best I can come up with is that there will be a % of a chance that it might affect prejudice of an investigator, DA or Jury - no definitive yes or no because everyone is different.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 09:51:21 AM »
Harumph. No advice about gold-plating, or bedazzling my firearms. Ain't they know I be pimpin?
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K Frame

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 10:02:39 AM »
See, I'm not even inclined to tart up my range guns.

First off, that's not me, but secondly, I don't think I'd want something like that even appearing in photos of "my arsenal!" that might be shown to a jury.

"Sure, ladies and gentlemen, he might have used a plain jane .38 Special, but in his arsenal he has a TARTED UP HYPER SLAUGHTERAUGHTOR O'DEATH MACHINE!"
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mtnbkr

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 10:20:03 AM »
If they start going through your safe at home, then the mere fact you have an "arsenal" is going to screw you.

They're going to have a hard time making the case that my "fabulously purple" kentucky pistol is indicative of violent tendencies.  Maybe violence against good taste, but not against man. :D

Anyway, "tarting up" takes a variety of forms.  It can be custom grips for your revolver, engraving, custom stock on a rifle, or Punisher logos on your AR.  Have you seen some of the dedicated benchrest rigs? 



ZOMG!  Flames, not only is he a gun murderer, but an arsonist as well! ;)

Chris

K Frame

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 11:51:27 AM »
"Anyway, "tarting up" takes a variety of forms."

REALLY?

I never knew! I thought waffle patterning your blue stock was a factory option...

:rofl:

"Tarting" infers "enhancements" that are done in poor taste.

Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but grips, engraving, things that actually become a part of the gun and which are by and large traditional, aren't tarting.

Painting the stock to your Ruger blue and when waffle patterning it?

Well, maybe not really tarting, but damn, you're starting to hang out on sketchy street corners at night when you do that *expletive deleted*it.

I don't do any of that.

I don't like stainless steel, I don't even like engraving.

Perhaps the most decorative stamp I have on any of my guns is the set of faux Ivory grips I have for my Model 28, and the deep red highlighted wood grips you gave me for my one J frame.

I guess you could call my guns Amish.
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Unisaw

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 12:36:11 PM »
"I guess you could call my guns Amish."

That's hilarious, Mike.  All of my carry guns are either stock or decidedly old school.  My 1911 is a 70 Series Colt government model.  The only changes to it are a set of King-Tappan sights, a Pachmayr rubberized MSH, and cheap but very functional grip panels.

The way I see it, the downside of Punisher grips and the like is low probability but high consequence.  There is no upside.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 01:36:56 PM »

The way I see it, the downside of Punisher grips and the like is low probability but high consequence.  There is no upside.

I agree. I also carry a 1911. (I rotate among three 1911s.) Even the ones reserved for range duty aren't "tarted up." I may change grips, and  I don't like arched mainspring housings so those get changed to the straight/flat type but, other than that, I keep 'em stock. I confess to liking photos of blued 1911s wearing stag stocks, but I just can't bring myself to buy a set. I know I'd like them for awhile, and then I'd have to go back to double diamond checkered Walnut or Rosewood.

But Punisher grips? Or skull and crossbones? Yeah -- low probability, but I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the odds and have to sit there while my lawyer tries to explain to a jury that I'm not really a homicidal vigilante, I just play one in my fantasies -- errr, no, no, that's NOT what I meant, I meant, ummm, errr ... Punisher grips aren't "tarting up," they're stupid.
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HeroHog

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 01:43:26 PM »
I tarted up 2 of mine. One for accuracy and function:



and one for kicks:



Neither are "carry" guns although both will make an appearance should :rofl:
 :old:
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Pb

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 01:51:35 PM »
Juries hate people who use un-pc guns.

Stupid, but absolutely true.  If you shoot a criminal with an AR-15 it will bias a jury against you if it goes to trial.  A fudd gun plays a lot better with a jury:

Here's a study about this topic:

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/09/will-it-hurt-me-in-court-weapons-issues-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/

lee n. field

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2017, 02:08:06 PM »
I, too, am one to go in for only minimalist modifications on carry guns.  Talon rubber grips on my 2 XDS'.  (Love 'em.)  Different grips, and painting the front sight on my snubbies.  Other guns, similar tweaks.  My G19 got a little more, but I've never yet carried it, and the changes should be defensible, if necessary.  And I'm not at all inclined to garish decoration.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:24:54 PM by lee n. field »
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lee n. field

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2017, 02:12:57 PM »
Don't forget your holster, BTW.

Found this in a link-wander from that pistol-forum thread:



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K Frame

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2017, 03:16:13 PM »
Juries hate people who use un-pc guns.

Stupid, but absolutely true.  If you shoot a criminal with an AR-15 it will bias a jury against you if it goes to trial.  A fudd gun plays a lot better with a jury:

Here's a study about this topic:

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2009/09/will-it-hurt-me-in-court-weapons-issues-and-the-fears-of-the-legally-armed-citizen/



You know, that study makes my home defense arquebus look better and better all the time...
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K Frame

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2017, 03:19:17 PM »
I tarted up 2 of mine. One for accuracy and function:



and one for kicks:







Mighty proud thundersticks you have there, English...
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HankB

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2017, 05:16:48 PM »
OK, no Punisher skull . . . how about this treatment?



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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 06:57:34 PM »
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!

HeroHog

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2017, 06:58:42 PM »
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!

Scout26

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2017, 07:43:28 PM »
I have three carry guns.

A) 1911 only mods are thinner, rubberized grips with finger grooves that I purchased from Monkeyleg awhile back.  Unless you're "of the gun" or know 1911's you wouldn't notice anything different.  (No Zombies, Punisher Skulls, or Killdozers.)

B)  P227 that is bone stock.

C) Ruger LCR in 38sp +p, (but I only carry non +p rounds.  It's snappy enough with regular .38Spc rounds)  For when the two larger pistols could become conspicuous.   It has Crimson Trace grips.  It was a gift and came that way.


I have thought about buying a "Killdozer" Lower every now and again.   ;) ;)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 12:17:51 PM by Amy Schumer »
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just Warren

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2017, 07:45:14 PM »
Quote
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. Ezekiel 25:17.

So I guess I'll give up on having this engraved on the barrel of my 642.
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Scout26

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 07:50:32 PM »
So I guess I'll give up on having this engraved on the barrel of my 642.

Nope, you're good... They'd need an electron microscope to read it.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 07:52:20 PM »

A) 1911 only mods are thinner, rubberized grips with finger grooves that I purchased from Monkeyleg awhile back.  Unless your "of the gun" or know 1911's you wouldn't notice anything different.  (No Zombies, Punisher Skulls, or Killdozers.)


Pearce Grips? That's my first choice for carry duty.
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lee n. field

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2017, 08:32:18 PM »
I have three carry guns.

A) 1911 only mods are thinner, rubberized grips with finger grooves that I purchased from Monkeyleg awhile back.  Unless your "of the gun" or know 1911's you wouldn't notice anything different.  (No Zombies, Punisher Skulls, or Killdozers.)

Pearce Grips? That's my first choice for carry duty.

Pachmayr and Hogue also make that style, if I remember right.  I don't care for the rubber w/ finger groove style (tried them on some other, non-1911, guns).

Still haven't settled on a just right grip for my 1911.  I saw at Midway some WWII repro, full checkered plastic grips that I want to try.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 09:35:47 PM by lee n. field »
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HeroHog

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2017, 08:50:20 PM »
Sounds like the grips I ran on my 1911 Norinco

I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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HeroHog

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Re: Really excellent discussion on another forum...
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2017, 08:53:07 PM »
I run Pachmayers on my Model 59 S&W

I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
MOLON LABE!