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Author Topic: DACA  (Read 2118 times)
Hawkmoon
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« on: September 04, 2017, 10:22:58 AM »

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/03/trump-dreamers-immigration-daca-immigrants-242301

It appears that President Trump is going to pull the plug on DACA -- with a 6-month delay to allow those illegals who want to scram, time to scram, and to allow Congress to do something if they're really worried about it.

IMHO this is the only proper course. Obama had no legal authority to order that immigration laws be ignored in the first place, so if Trump does pull the plug on DACA he's only reversing another of Obama;s unconstitutional policies/orders. The Congress writes the laws -- if they want to change the laws to allow illegals to remain here -- and work, and/or suck off the government teat -- they are the ones who should enact legislation to make that happen. This, of course, puts them right where they don't want to be -- they don't want to be forced to appear weak on border security and immigration, but they also don't want to antagonize (dare I say "alienate"?) the growing Hispanic "constituency" (if a heap of people who aren't here legally and aren't supposed to vote can be considered a "constituency").

If he does it, it's a ballsy move by Trump, because it's going to piss off Congress even more, but it's going to force a lot of them to show their true colors.
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makattak
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 10:27:49 AM »

More and more, it's clear that the true colors of everyone in D.C. is green.

They've all been paid for by the Chamber of Commerce.
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"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small... the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; the less it corresponded to reality the better...To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."
230RN
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 11:10:59 AM »

I think it's part of "building a wall," which I think too many took literally as a physical wall.

If you can't keep 'em out, chase 'em out.

Terry, strong proponent of legal (and strongly vetted) immigration, 230RN
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Mannlicher
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 11:26:27 AM »

DACA was a mistake when it was formulated.  It is unconstitutional on the face of it.  Trump at least, is trying to put the interests of AMERICANS first,  not the interests of everyone else in the world.  Sad, sort of, that folks live in third world shitholes, but we can't fix it for everyone, and should not try.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 11:43:51 AM »

DACA was a mistake when it was formulated.  It is unconstitutional on the face of it.  Trump at least, is trying to put the interests of AMERICANS first,  not the interests of everyone else in the world.  Sad, sort of, that folks live in third world shitholes, but we can't fix it for everyone, and should not try.


Agreed. They should stay and fix their shitholes, instead of coming here and immediately doing their best to downgrade the U.S. to shithole conditions rivaling those they left behind.
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HankB
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 05:08:16 AM »

Agreed. They should stay and fix their shitholes, instead of coming here and immediately doing their best to downgrade the U.S. to shithole conditions rivaling those they left behind.
Agreed - and I can say much the same to those ^%$#@! Kalifornians who are fleeing to Texas!
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BobR
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 06:40:22 AM »

Agreed - and I can say much the same to those ^%$#@! Kalifornians who are fleeing to Texas!

Speaking of those Calexit guys, here is a 10 minute video of Tucker Carlson talking to one of the proponents of moving the middle class out of California and exporting their values to the rest of the US.  rolleyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikxreo413YE

If you don't want to watch the whole thing to prevent the loss of brain cells start around the 6 minute mark.  Wink

bob
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 08:08:09 AM »

Trump and Sessions did it: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRUMP_IMMIGRATION_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-09-05-11-20-13

Predictably, Nancy Pelosi calls it an act of political cowardice. Personally, I calls it an act of political courage. It's always easy to roll over and give away the law -- it takes courage to stand up for what's legal even when there are lots of people who want the illegality to continue.

And ... what's this? Putting Americans to work, because there aren't enough foreigners? Who'd a thunk it?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/04/summer-employers-trump-guest-worker-visas-immigration-242271

It has to be fake news, of course, because everyone knows the foreigners only do the work that Americans are unwilling to do.
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BTR
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 08:36:05 AM »

Awesome Trump!   grin
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grampster
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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 05:31:11 PM »

Aaaaand the whiners and morons are coming out of the woodwork.  America sure is different now than when I was a kid.  We were actually taught correct stuff in general and what America really was.
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Warren
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 05:50:52 PM »

Would you trade residency for the DACA people if it meant we got the wall?

Trump holds them hostage in a way but will let them stay as long as the wall is built.

Work stops on the wall and DACA people start being deported.

What about if Trump can get an absolutely free hand in dealing with other illegals?

How about an end to birthright citizenship if the parents are illegal?

I ask because DACA types are the least problematic of the illegal population and if meant we got the other things it would be worth it to let them stay. They are the most acculturated, speak the language, have good jobs generally, and are not a big source of violent crime so it's not like they are a big risk.

They can still be deported if they commit crimes of course, and they must be ineligible for benefits and have to put themselves on a path to citizenship or find themselves deported in a few years.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 06:27:55 PM »


How about an end to birthright citizenship if the parents are illegal?


We need that, but I don't think we should be "negotiating" for it. We should just do it.



I ask because DACA types are the least problematic of the illegal population and if meant we got the other things it would be worth it to let them stay. They are the most acculturated, speak the language, have good jobs generally, and are not a big source of violent crime so it's not like they are a big risk.


They're the tip of the iceberg -- or the tip of the spear. The protesters are already whining about "breaking up families," and the only way to avoid breaking up a family when some of the members (or all of the members) are illegal is to either deport them all, or let them all stay. So what happens if we allow the "dreamers" to remain? Do we then have to allow the also-illegal alien parents to remain, in the holy name of not breaking up the family? Do the dreamers become de facto] anchor babies?

The problem is that, individually, many (maybe even most) of them are nice people, and each has his or her own story. Collectively, however, they are a problem ... and they are here illegally. What we're seeing is the unfortunate result of years of NOT enforcing the laws. The lack of enforcement encouraged waves of illegals to come here, and now that someone has balls enough to suggest actually enforcing the law, everyone is accusing him of being a monster. Sorry, but no. The true monsters - the people who should bear the brunt of the criticism and the blame -- are the [bleeping] liberals who allowed this mess to get so out of control from the git-go.
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zahc
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 06:34:54 PM »

isn't the birthright thing written into the Constitution?
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TommyGunn
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2017, 07:12:37 PM »

isn't the birthright thing written into the Constitution?

For those born in America, yes,  it's in the 14th amendment.  These daca were born in another country and brought here as young children.
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 07:35:05 PM »

isn't the birthright thing written into the Constitution?

Not exactly.   Many countries do offer birthright citizenship (Germany, for example).  However, that does not confer onto the parents the right to remain.  In fact Germany used to kick out non-native parents and their German-born children.  Now, when the child was 18, they became subject to German National Service (either in the military or alternative service), unless the child renounced and revoked their German Citizenship (or was serving in the military of a friendly foreign power, like the US or British military.)  

Many children born to US servicemember parents, had to have their parents jump through hoops to get US citizenship shortly after birth.  

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/18/constitution-doesnt-mandate-birthright-citizenship/

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/27/the-constitution-still-doesnt-grant-birthright-citizenship/
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Firethorn
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 07:37:34 PM »

Which occasionally leads to the problem of us deporting the high school valedictorian, who has a scholarship to Harvard, who doesn't even speak his 'native' country's language because the parents were like 'he is going to be American'.

If they're criminal, get rid of them.  But the good ones?  Those we should keep.  Deport the parents when the kid is an adult and doesn't need them anymore.
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41magsnub
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2017, 08:14:04 PM »

Listening to pbs in the  back of an uber.  They are interviewing a paramedic in Houston who sounds American but is an illegal brought in as a baby.  Irritating they are trying to tie this to the storm...
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2017, 10:01:00 PM »

Which occasionally leads to the problem of us deporting the high school valedictorian, who has a scholarship to Harvard, who doesn't even speak his 'native' country's language because the parents were like 'he is going to be American'.

If they're criminal, get rid of them.  But the good ones?  Those we should keep.  Deport the parents when the kid is an adult and doesn't need them anymore.

So if someone does something illegal, does that make it "criminal"??   Yes, it sucks for the kid.  However, the parents failed to consider that outcome.  Life is hard, it's harder when your (parents) are stupid.  Go to you parents home country, do not pass go, do not collect $200.   When you are 18 you can come back, or if you have legal family here (not foster care, that system is already grossly overloaded), you can stay.  But no .gov bennies. 
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 02:51:12 AM »

isn't the birthright thing written into the Constitution?

The American-born children of illegal alien parents are what are referred to as "anchor babies." They're different from "dreamers." The dreamers are illegals who were brought here as infants or young children, but who are not native-born Americans. You have to watch closely, because the leftists and the liberals try to obfuscate the distinction.

Why "anchor babies"? Because the liberals use them as an argument to allow the illegal parents to stay here, thus "anchoring" the parents to the U.S.
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makattak
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 04:33:46 AM »

Which occasionally leads to the problem of us deporting the high school valedictorian, who has a scholarship to Harvard, who doesn't even speak his 'native' country's language because the parents were like 'he is going to be American'.

If they're criminal, get rid of them.  But the good ones?  Those we should keep.  Deport the parents when the kid is an adult and doesn't need them anymore.

Ah yes. Let's ignore second-order effects because everything is happy-happy joy joy for the "good" illegals!

First of all, if he qualified for Harvard, then let him apply for a student visa. We have laws for how this works.

Secondly, rewarding his parents with U.S. citizenship (which is what "chain migration" will do) for breaking the law will certainly not encourage others to similarly break the law.
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"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small... the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; the less it corresponded to reality the better...To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 11:04:32 AM »

Ah yes. Let's ignore second-order effects because everything is happy-happy joy joy for the "good" illegals!

First of all, if he qualified for Harvard, then let him apply for a student visa. We have laws for how this works.

Secondly, rewarding his parents with U.S. citizenship (which is what "chain migration" will do) for breaking the law will certainly not encourage others to similarly break the law.

Yepp. Today's anchor baby will be tomorrow's anchor Harvard Ph.D.

We either have laws, or we don't If we have laws, they should be enforced, uniformly and objectively. Laws that are not enforced, or are enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, are worse than no laws at all, because they engender an attitude of disrespect for the rule of law.
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 01:51:15 PM »

Which occasionally leads to the problem of us deporting the high school valedictorian, who has a scholarship to Harvard, who doesn't even speak his 'native' country's language because the parents were like 'he is going to be American'.

If they're criminal, get rid of them.  But the good ones?  Those we should keep.  Deport the parents when the kid is an adult and doesn't need them anymore.

Again "occasionally", and sometimes they are high screwl valedictorian because the screwl administrators want to highlight how bad those evil republicans are in wanting to break-up and deport entire families of our "Best and Brightest". 

And for every high screwl valedictorian; there are hundreds, nee thousands, of "bad kids" in gangs, selling drugs, and committing other crimes.

Plus we pay for most of them.  EIC on the income tax; along with food stamps, various welfare, housing and other fed.gov bennies that they or their parents can apply for.  If your living rent free, eating for free, getting a welfare check, and huge .gov refund each spring, you can afford, to send your under the counter paycheck back to Mexico...

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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
Ben
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 02:19:09 PM »

So this Antonio Vargas guy is shooting his mouth off again, and also bragging about his doctored SSI card.

He apparently was bragging about it before, in 2014, which begs the question, why wasn't he arrested? I'm not sure if it's a felony or not (the twitchy article says it is, and should be right as its at the very least identity theft), but shouldn't this mean I can rob a bank and get off scot free? After all, I'd just be taking other people's money too.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/09/06/flashback-illegal-immigrant-shows-off-doctored-social-security-card-hes-used-to-pay-thousands-in-taxes/

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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2017, 08:48:17 AM »

Apparently Bannon (who is, himself, a Roman Catholic) has raised a point: the Roman Catholic Church has a conflict of interest in criticizing Trump and in supporting DACA. Bannon points out that the RC church needs immigrants (legal or illegal) to fill the pews.

http://www.newser.com/story/248313/bannon-catholic-church-needs-illegal-aliens-to-fill-pews.html

I hadn't thought of that, but I have to agree. When my wife was alive we alternated between attending an Episcopal church (both because I'm a Protestant and because she liked the Latino assistant pastor) and a nearby Roman Catholic church (because my late wife, being a Latina from South America) was Roman Catholic. At the Episcopal church, we attended a Spanish language mass. I would estimate that probably two thirs of the attendees were illegals. At the Catholic church, that part of the city had changed so much demographically that the name on the church had been changed, officially, to the Spanish version. When I was young it was Sacred Heart. Now it's Sagrado Corazon. And, without guessing at a percentage, I'll just say that I'm certain a significant portion of the congregation was (and is) comprised of illegals.

There was a time when I used to take in old computers and fix them up for use by kids who couldn't afford to buy a computer but who needed one for school. I did a couple for the Episcopal church, through the Latino pastor, but I stopped doing it because I became certain that he was channeling them to illegals. And, as I explained to my wife, I obviously had no prejudice against Latinos but I very much object to ILLEGAL Latinos (as well as illegal Somalis, Arabs, Russians, Chinese, or Martians). We went through the process to bring my wife here legally -- I have zero sympathy for those who skip the process and sneak in.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:00:24 AM by Hawkmoon » Logged
wmenorr67
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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2017, 09:32:20 AM »

Church I used to attend has changed from Trinity United Methodist Church to Trinity Community Church: A United Methodist Congregation.  I would say that most of the congregation is now Hispanic and most of them not here legally.
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