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Author Topic: Paul Ryan blocking national concealed carry reciprocity  (Read 542 times)
BTR
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« on: September 11, 2017, 08:24:50 AM »

I despise the GOPe. 

http://tennesseestar.com/2017/07/19/commentary-weak-kneed-paul-ryan-stalls-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity/
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makattak
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 09:34:03 AM »


Where did I put that... AH, here it is:

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"Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small... the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; the less it corresponded to reality the better...To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 09:50:19 AM »

I despise the GOPe. 


I despise Paul Ryan.
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Ben
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 10:26:02 AM »

This is just infuriating.
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »

Why do you think that damn near anything requires Congressional legislation in the Trump agenda is stalled ??
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 11:05:35 AM »

Why do you think that damn near anything requires Congressional legislation in the Trump agenda is stalled ??


Those in charge of the Republican Party do not want any other outsider candidates getting the idea that they can just come in and take over the party. You don't just walk into a polictical party and get to snag big, top spots like POTUS. There are people who've been there for decades, and it is THEIR turn. How dare you take what others have worked sold their souls for?
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When MLK used the techniques he learned from Gandhi - was that cultural appropriation?

Snowflakes: fragile since 1520
"The ears of our generation have been made so delicate by the senseless multitude of flatterers that, as soon as we perceive that anything of ours is not approved of, we cry out that we are being bitterly assailed..."
--Martin Luther, On Christian Liberty
MechAg94
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 11:11:50 AM »

Why do you think that damn near anything requires Congressional legislation in the Trump agenda is stalled ??
McConnell has done his part to make that happen also.
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
Hawkmoon
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 02:16:16 PM »

McConnell has done his part to make that happen also.

True. I despise him, too.
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RocketMan
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 05:08:01 PM »

It's not so much that the GOPe dislike the legislation.  It's that they intensely dislike Trump, and refuse to advance any legislation he favors.  It's personal for them.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 05:33:34 PM »

It's not so much that the GOPe dislike the legislation.  It's that they intensely dislike Trump, and refuse to advance any legislation he favors.  It's personal for them.

Agreed. But, when next November rolls around, it's going to be personal for a lot of voters who voted R with the expectation that certain things, such as the repeal of Obamacare and national carry reciprocity, would be enacted. If that doesn't happen, I expect that a lot of incumbent Rs will be kicked out. The question is, will their seats be taken by Democrats, or by Republican challengers?
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 08:15:46 PM »

My guess is that 2018 will see an end to the Rino majority in Congress and the Dems will hold majorities in both houses.

An absolutely classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams
RocketMan
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 03:36:29 AM »

My guess is that 2018 will see an end to the Rino majority in Congress and the Dems will hold majorities in both houses.

An absolutely classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I expect much the same thing.  The Republican base essentially has no one to vote for going forward.  Tired of having been lied to repeatedly, Republican conservatives will stay home in disgust, leaving a wide open field for the (socialist) Democrat party to sweep the elections.

Everyone has been crowing about the demise of the Democrat party after the last election cycle.  What we may really be seeing is the demise of the Republican party, and their death will have been self-inflicted out of spite for Trump.
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ôDonĺt be so open-minded that your brains fall out.ö - G.K. Chesterton

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed."  She may be right.

Some joker wrote on a bathroom wall, "Is there really intelligent life on Earth?"
Someone scribbled below in answer, "Yes, but I am going home next Tuesday."

"I'm sciencing as fast as I can!"

"Help, I've fallen and I can't find the beef!"
jamisjockey
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 03:41:48 AM »

My guess is that 2018 will see an end to the Rino majority in Congress and the Dems will hold majorities in both houses.

An absolutely classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Being leadership in stronghold states has it advantages.  When you're the minority party, your warchest gets nice and full.  I'm not saying they're in it for the money, but they're in it for the money.
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JD

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Ben
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 05:36:12 AM »

My guess is that 2018 will see an end to the Rino majority in Congress and the Dems will hold majorities in both houses.

An absolutely classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Though we'll get the same, "But you have to vote for the milquetoast GOPe candidates or you'll get the liberal candidates!". Which often works to keep the GOPe in, but I'm not seeing it for 2018.

Unless some things rapidly (and miraculously) turn around, we're looking a a pissed off electorate that voted for "Trump change (or "burn it down") and are seeing nothing. And it's not all Trump's fault. It's not only the "resistance" dems, but the status quo GOPe who have blocked health care reform, tax reform, and immigration, to name the big three for most R voters.

Shining on reciprocity is just another heaping spoonful of crap on the crap sandwich they're making us eat. I'll be interested to see what the NRA backlash will be on this and what their PR message will be in 2018 elections if national reciprocity doesn't go through. I think it coud have a big impact on R candidates in certain states.

Historically, the probability of a mid-term majority flip is already high. The GOPe is simply giving that probability a boost. Sometimes I think the "e" contingent of the GOP has as little understanding of the "deplorables" as the dems do.
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 05:52:06 AM »

The NRA will back A-rated candidates, and oppose the F-rated, right? Don't they always? We have to vote for [insert local Congressperson] so he can go (back) to Washington, and fight for Trump's agenda!!

As for the rest, I am expecting the usual "but my Congressman's one of the good guys" logic.
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When MLK used the techniques he learned from Gandhi - was that cultural appropriation?

Snowflakes: fragile since 1520
"The ears of our generation have been made so delicate by the senseless multitude of flatterers that, as soon as we perceive that anything of ours is not approved of, we cry out that we are being bitterly assailed..."
--Martin Luther, On Christian Liberty
MechAg94
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 06:30:35 AM »

I am waiting to find out what is being done by the Trump backers to make sure there are Republican challengers in the primaries for these GOPe congressmen.  If Trump himself backs that up with some campaign stops, he could potentially do a lot to clean house in Congress.  A percentage of Repub voters don't like Trump, but I think even those voters like Ryan and the do-nothing Congress a lot less.  Essentially, I think a lot of this can be cleaned up if the right moves are made and publicized.  If not, yes, the Republican dominance that appears to be in place now can easily end.
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
Chris
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 06:41:26 AM »

What I'm hearing from the local insiders is that the Rs are nervous as hell about the midterm and the 2020 elections, and are trying to avoid taking a strong stand on hardcore Republican and Trump issues.  Why?  The fear is that there will be a backlash against all things Republican and Trump in the next two national elections, given some of the polling numbers, and that there will be a swell of voters out to throw out anyone supporting Trump and his agenda.  So, the current Rs in office are not using the power of the majority they have out of fear of losing it next elections.
So, if this is accurate, you can expect nothing out of the Rs for the next 2-4 years, despite holding a majority with an R in the Oval Office, because they are afraid that if they do something, people might not vote for them in the future...

I'm personally not a fan of statutory term limits, but things like this sure make me understand why some people are.  Career politicians more concerned with keeping the job than doing it in the first place.
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Ben
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 06:42:22 AM »

Back to the OP, my belief is that if national reciprocity is not passed pre-2018 elections, we likely won't see it at all in the foreseeable future.
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Ben
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 06:47:16 AM »

Why?  The fear is that there will be a backlash against all things Republican and Trump in the next two national elections, given some of the polling numbers, and that there will be a swell of voters out to throw out anyone supporting Trump and his agenda.  So, the current Rs in office are not using the power of the majority they have out of fear of losing it next elections.

Which once again goes back to them not understanding "the deplorables". That "backlash" will more likely come from the conservative side rather than the general voting public. Many of the R seats up for grabs are in districts where people wanted to see at least some of this agenda get done. If they see kowtowing to dems and general groveling, those voters will simply stay home.
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"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."
BTR
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 08:55:30 AM »

Which once again goes back to them not understanding "the deplorables". That "backlash" will more likely come from the conservative side rather than the general voting public. Many of the R seats up for grabs are in districts where people wanted to see at least some of this agenda get done. If they see kowtowing to dems and general groveling, those voters will simply stay home.

I agree.  If nothing changes, I plan on staying home.  Why would I want to vote for people who lie to me and spit on me?

Right now, almost everyone in the country hates congress.  If they actually acted sort of conservative, then at least the conservatives would like them. 
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Amy Schumer
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 09:09:49 AM »

There are more Trump voters then the GOPe thinks.  And they will sit out the midterms, if Congress doesn't move on the Trump Agenda.  The failure of Obamacare repeal has REALLY pissed off a lot of R voters.  That should have been a slam dunk.  It should have been passed by Congress on 19 Jan 2017 and waiting for Trump to sign it on 20 Jan 2017.  They had been talking (and voting for) repeal for YEARS !!!!  And then when they get a chance to do it, they failed.  Miserably.

I hope there a lot of challengers to the incumbents.  R's or L's that will burn it down.
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on for the motherland.
Ben
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Posts: 21,524



« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 09:31:45 AM »

There are more Trump voters then the GOPe thinks. 

Heck, lets not even narrow it down to "Trump voters". There were plenty of people that didn't like Trump that voted third party or write-in. They are as sick of the GOPe as Trump voters are, and thus create an even larger voting (or staying at home) block.

Though I'll be curious to see if dems can actually spin up any viable competition. Given what happened in these recent special elections, I don't think the dem establishment quite has a grasp on their base - at least the base that takes up all the geography just inland of the East and West coasts.

I've been reading a lot in the City Data forums just to get local insights on various parts of Idaho. Boise is getting quite purple and has a large contingent that consider themselves far left/progressive. They think progressives in San Francisco, Portland, etc. are looney tunes.
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fistful
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 09:40:26 AM »

One thing that will likely be different in 2018 is that Trump is going to be much less supportive of Republican Congress-folk that he perceives as his enemies than previous GOP presidents were. On the other hand, how angry or dissatisfied will Republican voters (or Dem voters) be, if the economy continues to improve?
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When MLK used the techniques he learned from Gandhi - was that cultural appropriation?

Snowflakes: fragile since 1520
"The ears of our generation have been made so delicate by the senseless multitude of flatterers that, as soon as we perceive that anything of ours is not approved of, we cry out that we are being bitterly assailed..."
--Martin Luther, On Christian Liberty
MechAg94
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 12:07:07 PM »

Heck, lets not even narrow it down to "Trump voters". There were plenty of people that didn't like Trump that voted third party or write-in. They are as sick of the GOPe as Trump voters are, and thus create an even larger voting (or staying at home) block.

Though I'll be curious to see if dems can actually spin up any viable competition. Given what happened in these recent special elections, I don't think the dem establishment quite has a grasp on their base - at least the base that takes up all the geography just inland of the East and West coasts.

I've been reading a lot in the City Data forums just to get local insights on various parts of Idaho. Boise is getting quite purple and has a large contingent that consider themselves far left/progressive. They think progressives in San Francisco, Portland, etc. are looney tunes.
How many potential Republican voters actually voted 3rd party, write-in, or stayed home last November?  I thought 3rd party numbers were single digit and that was the leftist ones.  Do you have numbers on that?

I thought it was mostly the stay-home voters who came out and voted for Trump.  If someone gives them a reason to come out and vote again, they may do just that.
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
MechAg94
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 12:11:13 PM »

What I'm hearing from the local insiders is that the Rs are nervous as hell about the midterm and the 2020 elections, and are trying to avoid taking a strong stand on hardcore Republican and Trump issues.  Why?  The fear is that there will be a backlash against all things Republican and Trump in the next two national elections, given some of the polling numbers, and that there will be a swell of voters out to throw out anyone supporting Trump and his agenda.  So, the current Rs in office are not using the power of the majority they have out of fear of losing it next elections.
So, if this is accurate, you can expect nothing out of the Rs for the next 2-4 years, despite holding a majority with an R in the Oval Office, because they are afraid that if they do something, people might not vote for them in the future...

I'm personally not a fan of statutory term limits, but things like this sure make me understand why some people are.  Career politicians more concerned with keeping the job than doing it in the first place.
That is my biggest problem with the establishment Republicans.  They are always afraid of something and so won't take any action.  Fear seems to be a big part of their decision making...........and excuse making.  It is why they despised by a large number of their own voters. 
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"This observation, also, I have laid to heart, that they, who in matters of war seek in all ways to save their lives, are just they who, as a rule, die dishonorably; whereas they who, recognizing that death is the common lot and destiny of all men, strive hard to die nobly: these more frequently, as I observe, do after all attain to old age, or, at any rate, while life lasts, they spend their days more happily."  Xenophon
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