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Author Topic: Pharma Bro in the Pokey  (Read 314 times)
Ben
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« on: September 13, 2017, 03:26:27 PM »

For of all things, putting out a $5K bounty on a lock of Hillary Clinton's hair. They should throw away the key*.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/13/martin-shkreli-jailed-over-online-bounty-for-hillary-clintons-hair.html



*Actually I say this in jest. He may end up being guilty of some crimes, but I'm not sure a poor attempt at Internet humor qualifies as one, or as a jailable offense.
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Fly320s
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 03:38:32 PM »

I'm not seeing a crime there. 
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Firethorn
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 03:51:54 PM »

I'm not seeing a crime there. 

Taking "Hillary" specifically out of the equation, he was apparently requiring a hair with follicle attached, which raises the bar to battery as ripping a hair and root out involves injury.  Hair alone doesn't have DNA, which is what he was supposedly after.

Putting Hillary back in, he was talking about cloning her, which should be a crime itself.

Otherwise, well, given that she's a famous public person, it could be considered incitement, attempting to hire an assault, conspiracy, etc...
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griz
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 04:07:10 PM »

Besides the assault, albeit tiny, of pulling out a hair, there is also serious danger to the stupid person who tries to get that close to HRC and risks the wrath of the Secret Service.

Also agreed, why would anyone want to clone her?  It's as if you have the last virus of the plague and want to keep it going.
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Ben
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 04:57:24 PM »

Otherwise, well, given that she's a famous public person, it could be considered incitement, attempting to hire an assault, conspiracy, etc...

I'm not sure when you would apply that (genuine question, not calling you out).

I'm willing to bet there are literally thousands of examples of some similar poor taste jokes every week if you factor in twitter, facebook, and forums. Many some unknown against some other unknown; many unknown against the famous*; some famous against the famous.

When is the line crossed? If fame is a condition, why? Pharma boy is a dbag, no doubt, but it's difficult for me to find an actual "send him to jail" crime here. If some idiot actually took him seriously and were to be taken down by the SS in a Hillary hair grab attempt, I'd tend to just call that Darwinism.


*We have many links to Twitchy in the politics forum where people, both famous and not famous, are making outright death threats to Trump and other deplorables. Some of them have been fired from their jobs, but I have yet to see that someone was arrested.
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Chris
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 06:04:28 PM »

Remember, he was out on bond. It doesn't need to be a crime, just a violation of his bond terms (and soliciting an assault would most assuredly be a bond violation, especially since it is post conviction bond.)
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Warren
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 06:25:03 PM »

Still the judge seems to be an uptight crone.
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Firethorn
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 06:32:18 PM »

I'm not sure when you would apply that (genuine question, not calling you out).

The other problem is that it's like making terroristic threats, and such.  Means, method, opportunity.

Saying that I'm going to nuke "them bastards" isn't serious because I lack nukes.

Pharmabro is:
1.  Rich enough to pay
2.  Seen as serious enough to do so
3.  Has expressed something in pursuit of a specific plan against a specific target.

and:
4.  As Chris mentioned, he was out on bond.  So under tighter rules.
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 06:32:50 PM »

So, OK to make "in jest/parody" threats including calls for his assassination, against the sitting president but bad bad to make do similar to The Hillary

Got it.

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MechAg94
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 07:21:07 PM »

The other problem is that it's like making terroristic threats, and such.  Means, method, opportunity.

Saying that I'm going to nuke "them bastards" isn't serious because I lack nukes.

Pharmabro is:
1.  Rich enough to pay
2.  Seen as serious enough to do so
3.  Has expressed something in pursuit of a specific plan against a specific target.

and:
4.  As Chris mentioned, he was out on bond.  So under tighter rules.

So all those rich actors and others who wished for bad things to happen to Trump should all be jailed as well. 
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 07:48:06 PM »

Works for me, sauce for the goose and such.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 08:07:29 PM »

Besides the assault, albeit tiny, of pulling out a hair, there is also serious danger to the stupid person who tries to get that close to HRC and risks the wrath of the Secret Service.

Also agreed, why would anyone want to clone her?  It's as if you have the last virus of the plague and want to keep it going.

Ick.   I'd rather clone a velociraptor than Hillary  Clinton! shocked
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 08:21:02 PM »

Ick.   I'd rather clone a velociraptor than Hillary  Clinton! shocked


I'd rather vote for the velociraptor.
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Firethorn
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 11:33:21 PM »

So, OK to make "in jest/parody" threats including calls for his assassination, against the sitting president but bad bad to make do similar to The Hillary

Not sure you got the point?

Calling for the president to be assassinated is always bad, and likely to call forth the attention of the secret service.  But specificity of the 'plan' is a thing.  The more detailed, the more specific, the more serious.

For other people, different agencies like the FBI.  And I don't think we need to go down the road of making exemptions for Hillary, because that means exemptions for Trump and everybody else.  She's a former senator and first lady.  She gets extra protection for those positions.  Regardless of her politics.

The problem Pharmabro has is that being on parole he is under additional scrutiny and has a judge and parole officer who can revoke for whatever reason.  If they thought the request was serious...
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KD5NRH
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 11:52:38 PM »

The other problem is that it's like making terroristic threats, and such.  Means, method, opportunity.

I dunno; as I understand it, the bounty is $5k per hair.  That means it's potentially $500 million for her to pluck herself bald.  Maybe he figured she'd be the one collecting.  Though with his net worth at a bit over a tenth of that, he might be in some other trouble if she did.
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Hawkmoon
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 03:00:26 AM »

So, OK to make "in jest/parody" threats including calls for his assassination, against the sitting president but bad bad to make do similar to The Hillary

Got it.


It wasn't "in jest" or "parody" until he was hauled back into court over it. Then it magically became a joke.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the scumbag being put back where he belongs.
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jamisjockey
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« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 03:30:34 AM »

Yup.  If one of those celebrities had called for the assassination of the prez, and included a bounty on it, that would go from hairy eye ball bad taste comment to crime.  Although I'm sure if the SS can make it stick, they'd happily put someone in jail for making those comments.
Last SS I met, they're looking for a win after the Columbia scandal.
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 04:08:29 AM »

Martin Shkreli is already looking at sentencing for securities fraud convictions. He was very clearly offering a bounty for assault. While it might normally be hand waved away, he's already a convicted criminal. I have little doubt virtually anything except the most partisan judge would see this as acceptable behavior while waiting on sentencing. So, off to jail for the idiot.

Criminal does something dumb. Story at 11.

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Ben
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 05:46:07 AM »

Remember, he was out on bond. It doesn't need to be a crime, just a violation of his bond terms (and soliciting an assault would most assuredly be a bond violation, especially since it is post conviction bond.)

Okay, point taken there. I have no knowledge on how things change being on bond versus not, so I'll rely on the lawyer's expertise. Smiley

Bond out of the equation, I still have a hard time seeing it as a crime versus him being a jackass. I'm betting Michael Moore has come up with comparable harebrained schemes and has been serious about them. I don't believe Shkrelli was serious, just stupid.
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Triphammer
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 07:04:39 AM »

I think he was serious, just not about the cloning. He said a strand of hair, didn't say "one with a root". I think he wants to know what drugs she's been on for the last few months. if there was a root, maybe find out if she WAS replaced during the campaign. ( OK JK ---or not)
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Chris
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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 10:08:15 AM »

Okay, point taken there. I have no knowledge on how things change being on bond versus not, so I'll rely on the lawyer's expertise. Smiley

Bond out of the equation, I still have a hard time seeing it as a crime versus him being a jackass. I'm betting Michael Moore has come up with comparable harebrained schemes and has been serious about them. I don't believe Shkrelli was serious, just stupid.

Bail is an amount of money or conditions (or both) imposed on a defendant in lieu of incarceration.  Put up an amount of bail or agree to certain conditions, and you can remain out of jail pending further hearings.  Bond is what a bondsman is willing to post on a defendant's behalf in order to keep the defendant out of jail.  The bondsman risks the full amount to guarantee your appearance, generally for a percentage of the full bail amount, most commonly 10%-15%.  A judge setting bail can impose conditions to protect the public from the risk of further criminal activity.  Judge's commonly have conditions like no illegal drug use, no criminal activity, turn in your passport, etc. as bail conditions.  The bondsman can also put conditions on the posting of bond, but that is a contract issue between the bondsman and the defendant.  There are some limits on pretrial bail and bail conditions, because the defendant enjoys the presumption of innocence.

Post-conviction or appellate bond is a whole different creature.  Same idea, in that you are putting up money to guarantee your appearance.  There is no more presumption of innocence, so there is no right to reasonable bail.  Any bond is solely at the discretion of the court, and in my experience it is rare because people looking at prison time are far more likely to run post conviction than they are pretrial.  So, if it is granted, there are a lot more terms imposed than pretrial.  Often an ankle monitor is required.   
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