Chelsea Manning named visiting fellow at Harvard School of Government

[MillCreek]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/14/harvard-under-siege-for-making-convicted-spy-chelsea-manning-visiting-fellow.html

A former military member convicted of espionage named as a visiting fellow at Harvard.  The former acting CIA director resigns the same post in protest.  And I agree with the comments that I would be just as flabbergasted about this if Ms. Manning were still Mr. Manning.

[Ben]

I would be just as flabbergasted about this if Ms. Manning were still Mr. Manning.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the only reason this happened is because it IS Ms Manning.

[RevDisk]

I have some friends that are strongly pro-Manning. Most view Manning was some kinda of anti-system icon, or LGBT icon.

The reality of the situation is that Manning had significant mental issues, should not have held a clearance and should not have been in the military. This was wildly recognized in boot camp, but at that time, they wanted any body that could hear thunder or see lightning. Manning indiscriminately leaked information intentionally to hurt the US military and our diplomacy. Some people have claimed this was to 'expose war crimes', though I'm not aware of any war crimes actually being exposed. None of that seems to matter. Manning supposed to be some heroic icon.

Harvard wants to show off their virtue by nominating the icon rather than the person, I'm guessing.


Snowden, who WAS actually a good guy trying to expose crimes committed by the US government, gets less recognition. The lack of pardon is understandable because he did not get sentenced in court and fled the country. Snowden's position that he would not receive a fair trial is also very likely.

This is just another chapter of "Examples of How Humanity Sucks". And yes, Ben. As Snowden is not being named Harvard fellow and Manning is, it's specifically because Manning is trans and Harvard wants to make a social statement. I could care less what Manning identifies as, but a significant amount of people want the icon rather than the actual person. Manning is profiting off it, and likely will continue to do so.

[Perd Hapley]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the only reason this happened is because it IS Ms Manning.

True. Contra MillCreek, Mr. Manning's transexual delusion does make his apointment to this post all the more absurd. The guy needs help getting his mind right; not a job where he can poison the minds of others.

[Hawkmoon]

Snowden, who WAS actually a good guy trying to expose crimes committed by the US government, gets less recognition. The lack of pardon is understandable because he did not get sentenced in court and fled the country. Snowden's position that he would not receive a fair trial is also very likely.

Richard Nixon wasn't tried or convicted, either, but Gerald Ford pardoned him ... for any crimes he "might have committed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon

[Hawkmoon]

How can a so-called female be a "fellow"?        

[RevDisk]

Richard Nixon wasn't tried or convicted, either, but Gerald Ford pardoned him ... for any crimes he "might have committed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon

Politically, not legally, in the case of Snowden.

President can pardon for anything.

[K Frame]

And it appears that the invitation to be a visiting fellow (yeah, that's not ironic, is it?) has been rescinded after a number of very high power/profile supporters/fellows/associates raised one hell of a stink.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/15/harvard-withdraws-chelsea-mannings-visiting-fellow-invitation-after-backlash.html


And am I the only one who thinks that Manning should actually be fronting an Eurythmics revival band? He's got the look.

[lee n. field]

And am I the only one who thinks that Manning should actually be fronting an Eurythmics revival band? He's got the look.

 

He really does.  Oh, what was her name....?

[K Frame]

Wasn't it Annie Lennox?

Yes. It was. Thank you Google, bringer of all knowledge...

[MillCreek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

[BobR]

And he is out;

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harvard-withdraws-chelsea-manning-s-visiting-fellow-invitation-n801526


And he then states:

Manning responded by tweeting that she was "honored" to be the first "disinvited trans woman visiting Harvard fellow" before calling the university out for bowing to pressure from the CIA.

"This is what a military/police/intel state looks like," Manning tweeted. "The CIA determines what is said and is not taught at Harvard."

So what do we have here, a high school graduate who was convicted of espionage, sentenced to prison where he stayed for 7 years and some how he has the experience to speak at Harvard as a visiting fellow. They really don't have very high standards, do they?

bob

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harvard-withdraws-chelsea-manning-s-visiting-fellow-invitation-n801526

[K Frame]

It's not a police state, Chelsley...

It's what's called reality when REAL people with REAL credentials show their disgust and refuse to participate or lend a veil of authenticity to the clown circus that Harvard was creating by inviting you.

If it truly were a police state, your treasonous brains would be splattered all over the wall the firing squad put you in front of.

Actually, if it were a sane state the same thing would have happened, instead of making you some sort of hero by paying to lop your junk off.

[RevDisk]

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/announcements/statement-dean-elmendorf-regarding-invitation-chelsea-manning-be-visiting-fellow

Surprisingly good statement. Or very well written post-incident PR cleanup. Either way, masterful PR piece.

Highlights were:

- They invite people that people dislike because their perspective can give important information.
- "We did not intend to honor her in any way or to endorse any of her words or deeds, as we do not honor or endorse any Fellow." Good bit of lawyering
- They claim that various Harvard fellow titles are not an honor, even though tons of people put it on their bio. They're rethinking that part officially.


I could see theoretically that their claims might be legit. I doubt one could possibly get a real explanation out of Manning, now that a retroactive story has been so carefully crafted. As I've stated before, ignoring the entire trans argument, Manning showed mental issues that should have precluded military enlistment, let alone a clearance. Leaking the information was, by appearance, a longwinded temper tantrum. This was known from the very start. Manning was SUPPOSED to have been discharged during Basic. Dozens of people should have had the authority to hand Manning the walking papers. Everyone knew it, and no one was allowed to give Manning the boot.

Major Nidal Hasan was another case. Equally clear warnings from the start. Both are clear examples of the culture of the US military that need to change. Head cases should not be allowed in the military. Drill sergeants and commanders should have the ability to weed out poor performers or head cases.

[Ben]

- They invite people that people dislike because their perspective can give important information.

That's pretty funny, considering what's been going on at most of the major universities in the country (see Berkeley).

[slugcatcher]

Snowden, who WAS actually a good guy trying to expose crimes committed by the US government, gets less recognition. The lack of pardon is understandable because he did not get sentenced in court and fled the country. Snowden's position that he would not receive a fair trial is also very likely.

I don't have the list in front of me but Snowden did release national espionage secrets that had nothing to do with unconstitutional acts committed by our government.  For that alone he should spend a long time in Club Fed.  Yes, he did expose how the government is spying on it's citizens without probable cause or warrants.  However, he is not the hero he wants us to believe he is.  

[Perd Hapley]

Head cases should not be allowed in the military.

Why do you hate the infantry?  

[Pb]

Reminds me of when Trayvon Martin got an honorary posthumous degree in aeronautical science for trying to beat a man to death:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/trayvon-martin-degree.html?mcubz=3

[Hawkmoon]

And it appears that the invitation to be a visiting fellow (yeah, that's not ironic, is it?) has been rescinded after a number of very high power/profile supporters/fellows/associates raised one hell of a stink.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/15/harvard-withdraws-chelsea-mannings-visiting-fellow-invitation-after-backlash.html

Has Manning gone under the knife?

Manning, a 29-year-old transgender woman, formerly known as Bradley Manning, told ABC's "Good Morning America" in a recent interview that she was prompted to give the 700,000 military and State Department documents to WikiLeaks because of the human toll of the "death, destruction and mayhem" she saw as an Army intelligence analyst in Iraq.

As far as I'm concerned, if it hasn't undergone gender reassignment surgery, it can't possibly be a woman -- transgender or otherwise. The most it could qualify as is "transvestite."

[Hawkmoon]

Reminds me of when Trayvon Martin got an honorary posthumous degree in aeronautical science for trying to beat a man to death:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/trayvon-martin-degree.html?mcubz=3

The university, in Miami Gardens, Fla., came up with the idea to give him a degree because this year is the fifth anniversary of his death, and, had Mr. Martin lived and completed university in a four-year program, he would have graduated this spring, Ceeon Smith, a university spokeswoman, said an interview on Friday.

Except that he wouldn't have lasted five years to graduation. He would have either been killed in a gang war, or put in prison for something.

[RevDisk]

Except that he wouldn't have lasted five years to graduation. He would have either been killed in a gang war, or put in prison for something.

Source for this?

[Hawkmoon]

Source for this?

Pure speculation on my part based on what I read about him.

[French G.]

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/announcements/statement-dean-elmendorf-regarding-invitation-chelsea-manning-be-visiting-fellow

Surprisingly good statement. Or very well written post-incident PR cleanup. Either way, masterful PR piece.

Highlights were:

- They invite people that people dislike because their perspective can give important information.
- "We did not intend to honor her in any way or to endorse any of her words or deeds, as we do not honor or endorse any Fellow." Good bit of lawyering
- They claim that various Harvard fellow titles are not an honor, even though tons of people put it on their bio. They're rethinking that part officially.


I could see theoretically that their claims might be legit. I doubt one could possibly get a real explanation out of Manning, now that a retroactive story has been so carefully crafted. As I've stated before, ignoring the entire trans argument, Manning showed mental issues that should have precluded military enlistment, let alone a clearance. Leaking the information was, by appearance, a longwinded temper tantrum. This was known from the very start. Manning was SUPPOSED to have been discharged during Basic. Dozens of people should have had the authority to hand Manning the walking papers. Everyone knew it, and no one was allowed to give Manning the boot.

Major Nidal Hasan was another case. Equally clear warnings from the start. Both are clear examples of the culture of the US military that need to change. Head cases should not be allowed in the military. Drill sergeants and commanders should have the ability to weed out poor performers or head cases.

Too many people scared to offend someone or get accused of discrimination so instead of doing the right thing, just kick the can down to the next duty station.

[Pb]

Source for this?

Because people who try to murder strangers on the street usually don't have the discipline to go to actually attend school regularly and study?

[RevDisk]

Pure speculation on my part based on what I read about him.

Well, points for admitting it is pure speculation.

Because people who try to murder strangers on the street usually don't have the discipline to go to actually attend school regularly and study?

None of us know what the future could bring. Admittedly, the guy wasn't an angel. I certainly was not. But he clearly wasn't a hardcore thug like many seem to believe. He did more than a passing interest in aviation. He attended and volunteered at aviation related camps, and was taking classes at an aviation vo-tech school.

Both sides of the divide seem to have some sort of vested interest in seeing the 'other side' as absolutely evil guy. Zimmerman was a white racist hell bent on killing black children, rather a complete idiot with poor judgment that happened to be Hispanic. Martin was a thug hell bent on being a thug, rather than being a young man that also made poor judgment. Neither side showed particularly good judgment. While I do not fault the outcome of the trial, Zimmerman did not use the best judgment. And continues to not use poor judgment. Martin was obviously in the wrong, but that does not warrant that he would become a hardened criminal. One could easily see things going either direction, but folks seem eager to argue which path he would obviously definitely have taken.