Here we go again... (Texas church mass shooting)

[T.O.M.]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html

Shooting at a church outside of Texas.  Early reports I've seen are 20+ dead, another 30+ injured.

[zxcvbob]

Shooting at a church outside of [San Antonio,] Texas.  Early reports I've seen are 20+ dead, another 30+ injured.

I'm gonna have to start carrying at church again.  I quit cuz my LTC expired and I haven't had the time nor inclination to requalify.  (I'm an officer in the church, and doubt that I need a permit; it's private property)

[Sideways_8]

We are out of town, but my wife received a text message from a local news place about this. Between this shooting and the amount of "regular" shootings, we have decided to get the hell out of San Antonio and move back to the country as soon as we can.

[KD5NRH]

We are out of town, but my wife received a text message from a local news place about this. Between this shooting and the amount of "regular" shootings, we have decided to get the hell out of San Antonio and move back to the country as soon as we can.

Decent home prices near Stephenville if you've got skills that are in demand here.

[Hawkmoon]

Apparently the Democrats are already using this incident to call for more gun control -- without having even identified the shooter, or whether or not the gun or guns he used were obtained legally or not, whether or not he underwent background checks to buy it/them ... in other words, never let a crisis go to waste, and to hell with facts -- just make lots of noise.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/358868-democrats-renew-calls-for-gun-control-in-wake-of-texas-church-shooting

To me it's more justification to eliminate gun-free zones. Someone in that church should have been armed and prepared to shoot back.

[lee n. field]

I'm gonna have to start carrying at church again.  

always

[Phyphor]

Never let a crisis go to waste.  The left has always been nasty about dancing in the blood of the innocent....and their supporters don't seem to be bothered about this.

[HeroHog]

https://viral.buzzunites.com/2017/11/05/devin-kelley-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/

[Ben]

Apparently the pastor and his wife were out of town, but their 14 year old daughter was at church and is one of the dead. Man, that's gotta be tough for those parents.

[HeroHog]

Shot either by himself or a local "civilian"

[dogmush]

If he actually had a dishonorable discharge from the Air Force, he was a prohibited person.

[purequackery]

That looks to be solid.

The shooting suspect has been identified as 26-year-old Devin Patrick Kelley, CBS News has learned from federal law enforcement sources.

Kelley is a former U.S. Air Force member who served from 2010 to 2014. He was dishonorably discharged and court martialed in May 2014, CBS News has learned.

Federal law enforcement sources say the suspect used an AR-15 type rifle, CBS News justice and homeland security correspondent Jeff Pegues reports.

A law enforcement official confirmed that the gunman is deceased. He was shot after a car chase with police, but it's unclear if he shot himself or if he was shot by police, CBS News' senior investigative producer Pat Milton reports.

So what was he doing with this? Unless it's a replica, but that's unlikely considering what he just did.


We need more laws to ban bad people from getting AR-15s and shooting people at churches, because we can't even enforce existing laws against those things.

[HeroHog]

According to the live on scene report given by local LEO just covered on FOX, it was a citizen who shot at the idiot, NOT law enforcement. Cops arrived AFTER he was dead.

[HeroHog]

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/11/witness-texas-church-shooting-neighbor-shot-suspect-causing-leave-scene/

[MechAg94]

Apparently the Democrats are already using this incident to call for more gun control -- without having even identified the shooter, or whether or not the gun or guns he used were obtained legally or not, whether or not he underwent background checks to buy it/them ... in other words, never let a crisis go to waste, and to hell with facts -- just make lots of noise.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/358868-democrats-renew-calls-for-gun-control-in-wake-of-texas-church-shooting

To me it's more justification to eliminate gun-free zones. Someone in that church should have been armed and prepared to shoot back.

I thought Churches were no longer prohibited locations unless they were posted.  That was changed quite some time back. 

[Hawkmoon]

I thought Churches were no longer prohibited locations unless they were posted.  That was changed quite some time back. 

I didn't say the church was a gun-free zone, although since nobody shot back I guess it was a de facto gun-free zone even if it wasn't posted. In most states, churches are allowed to designate themselves as gun-free, and around here most churches do so. My point was simply that making a place free of guns in the possession of the law-abiding does not in any way ensure the safety of the sheep inside. It just makes the slaughter that much easier. Yet the usual suspects are already clamoring for MORE ["common sense"] gun control, when the simple reality is that what's needed is LESS gun control, and more VIOLENCE control.

[Hawkmoon]

It occurs to me that the leftists are going to be making a LOT of noise about this incident, and pushing loudly and diligently for GUN control, because this is their chance to get the New York Islamist terrorist truck attack out of the news and replace it with something that fits their agenda.

In fact, I was discussing the church shooting with a friend from across town, who happens to be on the security committee for his church, and we both wondered (only half in jest) if this might be a false flag operation.

[slingshot]

Don't have much to say about this other than it really saddens me.  Senseless violence for what reason?  26 people confirmed dead. I understand that was a significant % of the church attendance. 

[lee n. field]

Don't have much to say about this other than it really saddens me.  Senseless violence for what reason?  26 people confirmed dead. I understand that was a significant % of the church attendance. 

50 people in attendance, was a figure I saw.

[Perd Hapley]

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/11/05/sheriff-local-resident-with-a-gun-engaged-and-pursued-devin-patrick-kelley/

[Hawkmoon]

First possible hint of a potential link/motive: https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

Kelley, 26, was a resident of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, according to public records. Kelley was married and his mother-in-law listed a P.O. box in Sutherland Springs as a mailing address. A LinkedIn account appearing to belong to Kelley said he enlisted in the U.S. Air Force in 2009 after graduating from high school.

Kelley was discharged from the Air Force in 2014, according to Defense Department records. Kelley was court-martialed in November 2012 for assaulting his wife and their child. A judge sentenced him with a bad-conduct discharge, 12 months confinement, and two reductions in rank to basic airman, according to an appeals court decision in 2013 that affirmed the decision against Kelley.

Sutherland Springs is a small town. I wonder if his mother-in-law is a member of that church -- or if he thought she was. He was court-martialed for abusing his wife and child. If he's like most abusers, in his mind it was probably all the wife's (and, by extension, the mother-in-law's) fault because, after all, it certainly wasn't his fault. If his wife gave him the boot, he might have gone after the church as a way of getting back at the mother-in-law.

Yes, it's speculation, and a stretch -- but there is a potential link, so stay tuned for any word of motives derived from whatever social media accounts he had.

[DustinD]

https://www.facebook.com/summer.caddell/posts/10155142293886482?pnref=story Several good guys with guns chase the bad guy down and killed him.

From my Airforce JAG Officer, now constitutional law professor friend:
I looked it up on WESTLAW ( a subscription service). He probably was given a DD by the base-levelCourt-Martial Board but the GCM Convening Authority only APPROVED a BCD and 1 year. The USAF is notoriously lenient.

So a DD that was knocked down to a BCD.

[RoadKingLarry]

I've seen several indicators that he was a prohibited person DD from AF on domestic abuse charges.
The armed citizen taking him out is getting darn little notice in the MSM.

[freakazoid]

Just heard of this. There is an interview with the driver who helped chase him down.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/11/05/a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stopped-the-texas-church-shooter-now-hear-what-one-of-the-heroes-has-to-say/

[freakazoid]

Sounds like it was a neighbor of the church who is the one who fought back, not someone inside the church.

http://deadline.com/2017/11/texas-shooting-death-toll-press-conference-1202202380/

Asked by a reporter whether the shooter had been linked to any known militia groups, Freeman Martin, Regional Director Department of Public Safety, said the matter was “being investigated” but unknown at this time.

Sounds like someone was hoping for a certain spin.