Here we go again... (Texas church mass shooting)

[Triphammer]

Universal background checks have the same problem as virtually everything else the anti-gun crew propose -- they burden honest, law-abiding people while not doing anything to stop the problem. Just like "No Guns Allowed" signs -- if there had been a 30.06 sign posted at the entrances to that church, does anyone think the shooter would have turned around and gone home?

Can't buy a gun because you can't pass a background check? No problem -- steal one. Or buy one from a guy who stole it and who doesn't bother to run background checks.


(30.06 sign: https://www.texas3006.com/signs.php )

Or pour gas & light it up. If crazy want to kill, crazy will kill.

[MillCreek]

Don't forget that's why Bloomberg and other anti-gunners are targeting State legislators... you touch on that by mentioning California.

This is how we ended up with universal background checks in Washington between private parties: the Bloomberg-financed initiative campaign.

[Perd Hapley]

OK, first it was David Frum. Now a U.S. Senator has called for taking guns away from domestic abusers.  

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/11/07/schatz-the-bed-dem-senator-from-hawaii-wins-twitter-for-worst-gun-take-yet/

I sure am glad we have TOP MEN working on this gun control thing.

[Hawkmoon]

And another celebrity expert on firearms law has chimed in:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/11/05/alyssa-milano-gets-ripped-for-bald-faced-lie-on-background-checks-for-ar-15s-in-texas/

[Perd Hapley]

And another celebrity expert on firearms law has chimed in:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/11/05/alyssa-milano-gets-ripped-for-bald-faced-lie-on-background-checks-for-ar-15s-in-texas/

What's extra-fun is that she names Shannon Watts as her source for this truly-true fact of #gunsense.

[slingshot]

Just "love it" when personalities offer their opinions when they don't have a clue about what they're talking about.

[Angel Eyes]

OK, first it was David Frum. Now a U.S. Senator has called for taking guns away from domestic abusers.  

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/11/07/schatz-the-bed-dem-senator-from-hawaii-wins-twitter-for-worst-gun-take-yet/

I sure am glad we have TOP MEN working on this gun control thing.

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.

[Ben]

Well, Jeff Flake is doing something about all this. Note his attempt to get out of being an idiot by responding to Don Trump Jr with, "loophole".

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/11/07/sen-jeff-flake-writing-a-bill-to-close-the-nonexistent-domestic-violence-loophole/

[Perd Hapley]

Not only did the Air Force fail to comply with gun laws, but the Democrats actually filibustered legislation that [Ted Cruz] sponsored that would have forced them to comply with the law which might have prevented this massacre from happening.

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-reveals-how-democrats-filibustered-legislation-that-would-have-forced-the-air-force-to-update-ncic/#ixzz4xmlmWjx1

[Hawkmoon]

Whoa!

In 2012, after he had been arrested for assaulting his first wife and the baby, but before his court martial, the Air Force sent him to a mental facility, from which he escaped.

http://www.newser.com/story/251261/texas-shooter-escaped-from-psychiatric-hospital-in-2012.html

So not only did he assault his wife and kid (still not sure if the kid was hers, or theirs), he also threatened his superior officers, tried to smuggle firearms onto a military installation, and (effectively) went AWOL. And for all this he received a sentence of just one year in confinement, and the appeal board upgraded his discharge from dishonorable to bad conduct.

The more information that comes out, the worse the Air Force looks in this thing.

[freakazoid]

Anybody else hear this? http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/church-shooter-escaped-mental-health-facility-after-attacking-wife/ar-BBEH889?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
Apparently he had quite the history, including as the address says, escaping a mental health facility back in 2012. Also apparently he had tried to sneak firearms onto base where he was making death threats against his chain of command. How the hell was he dropped from getting a dishonorable discharge?
Also am curious about what caused his concealed carry application in Texas to be denied.

Dangit! Hawkmoon beat me too it.

[Hawkmoon]

This guy was what we used to call "a real piece of work."

[French G.]

Absolutely heart breaking as a dad to read that kids were hiding on the floor and crying while the guy methodically shot them. Anyone with a gun would have saved some life, who knows how much.

I don't much care for the sheep hitter pipe dogs or however Tam is best snarking it, but crap like this has tipped me more and more to collective responsibility. My kid or someone else's, I am more expendable. I don't expect to be a hero, but in the finest tradition of military sentries everywhere, die in a loud and glorious manner.

[Andiron]

I don't much care for the sheep hitter pipe dogs or however Tam is best snarking it, but crap like this has tipped me more and more to collective responsibility. My kid or someone else's, I am more expendable. I don't expect to be a hero, but in the finest tradition of military sentries everywhere, die in a loud and glorious manner.

Damn skippy.  Chest beating idiots aside,  ANY armed congregation couldn't have made it any worse.

[MechAg94]

Absolutely heart breaking as a dad to read that kids were hiding on the floor and crying while the guy methodically shot them. Anyone with a gun would have saved some life, who knows how much.

I don't much care for the sheep hitter pipe dogs or however Tam is best snarking it, but crap like this has tipped me more and more to collective responsibility. My kid or someone else's, I am more expendable. I don't expect to be a hero, but in the finest tradition of military sentries everywhere, die in a loud and glorious manner.

I believe it has been shown that in just about all cases of mass shooting or attempted mass shooting, the shooter stops as soon they meet armed or effective resistance.  They either commit suicide, run, or give up. 

But yeah, even if you end up on the losing side of a gun fight, you might buy time for others to get away.

[Hawkmoon]

The fact that this guy was wearing what has been described as a "ballistic" vest reminds me of something a retired police chief told me recently. I had commented to someone that the training I have received called for two shots to center of mass, stop and assess, and if the bad guy is still a threat then a third shot to the head (or what my police friend refers to as "the snot locker"). My friend jumped in and said too many bad guys are wearing personal body armor these days, so three shots isn't enough. He feels five is a minimum.

At the least, I think I need to modify my mindset to make it two+one immediately. If the likelihood is that an opponent is wearing body armor, why waste the time assessing, and giving him a chance to catch his breath after the two shots to the vest?

[RoadKingLarry]

My mindset is keep shooting till the threat is neutralized.

[French G.]

The fact that this guy was wearing what has been described as a "ballistic" vest reminds me of something a retired police chief told me recently. I had commented to someone that the training I have received called for two shots to center of mass, stop and assess, and if the bad guy is still a threat then a third shot to the head (or what my police friend refers to as "the snot locker"). My friend jumped in and said too many bad guys are wearing personal body armor these days, so three shots isn't enough. He feels five is a minimum.

At the least, I think I need to modify my mindset to make it two+one immediately. If the likelihood is that an opponent is wearing body armor, why waste the time assessing, and giving him a chance to catch his breath after the two shots to the vest?

Most police training now teaches "shoot to the ground." If the threat is up, keep firing. Of course, they have a paid vacation liability policy wheras you don't. So, got to hit the right something. Two ideas to think on for crowded environments. One is angles to achieve greater safety. For example shooting from a crouch or kneel so pass through or misses do not go directly to the crowd. The other is a contact shot if you can get it, again trying to control the exit angle.

[Hawkmoon]

Police also have qualified immunity ...

[RocketMan]

I wonder how many of the vests the bad guys are wearing are not really body armor, but just tactical-looking vests that resemble body armor?  Reporters being what they are, can't tell the difference.

[Hawkmoon]

I wonder how many of the vests the bad guys are wearing are not really body armor, but just tactical-looking vests that resemble body armor?  Reporters being what they are, can't tell the difference.

True, but in this case I think it was a "bulletproof" vest. First, apparently the guy was a fanatic about weapons. Second, more than one of the early articles mentioned a "ballistic belt" [sic], which tells us the police must have referred to it as a ballistic vest and the reporter(s) had no idea what that is, so they went with "belt." Third, the reports of the neighbor's shooting the guy mentioned hitting him through a gap in his body armor. I think this really was personal body armor. My question is whether it was soft body armor or if he was wearing trauma plates.

[Andiron]

The fact that this guy was wearing what has been described as a "ballistic" vest reminds me of something a retired police chief told me recently. I had commented to someone that the training I have received called for two shots to center of mass, stop and assess, and if the bad guy is still a threat then a third shot to the head (or what my police friend refers to as "the snot locker").

Hearts and minds. 

Two to the heart,  one to the mind 

[Fly320s]

My mindset is keep shooting till the threat is neutralized.

Proper mindset.

Considering how ineffective handgun rounds are, I suggest at least three to five shots as a minimum.  Add in that many of these whackos are under the influence of drugs and might not respond to pain, then one should be prepared to shoot many more times.

[TechMan]

Proper mindset.

Considering how ineffective handgun rounds are, I suggest at least three to five shots as a minimum.  Add in that many of these whackos are under the influence of drugs and might not respond to pain, then one should be prepared to shoot many more times.

Trying to put enough holes in the closed loop hydraulic system so it can't continue working.

[Ben]

Holy crap. Apparently this is an actual USA Today piece. The chainsaw bayonet mod on the AR-15.

God almighty.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2017/11/08/what-in-the-actual-fck-there-is-no-topping-usa-todays-look-at-devin-kelleys-rifle/