Author Topic: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain  (Read 6320 times)

Cliffh

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 11:56:48 PM »
For the last 9 years or so I've been taking 30mg of morphine up to 5 times per day.  There have been times when I could go a day or two without taking any, or just one or two.  No problems.

Those times are getting farther apart now though.  Not that "I have to have my pills", it's getting to the point where I can barely stand upright.  Even with that I still rarely take more than 3 per day,

And, thanks to the "opioid epidemic", my insurance company has decided they'll only cover ~ 3/5 of the doc's prescriptions for both DW & myself.

MillCreek

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2017, 08:48:54 AM »
^^^You are taking up to 150 MED (morphine equivalent dose) per day.  Under our state guidelines, we would be asked to get you to 120 MED or below, with an eye towards eventually getting you to 90 MED or below.  90 MED per day as an upper limit for chronic non-cancer pain is becoming the new standard.  To keep you above 120 MED, we have to show that we obtained a pain management consult, the pain consult agreed with the higher MED, that we tried various non-drug treatment options, and we have to certify that you still need that higher level.  And we don't get paid for all of this various paperwork, etc.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

HeroHog

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2017, 09:24:19 AM »
I can't imagine your pain level bud. I hurt but taking that much would have even ME on my @sk! In MY case, I can sit in my recliner and do nothing but use this notebook and life is bearable. Getting out of it and doing ANYTHING greatly reduces my comfort level and the pain takes off on an exponential journey up. I DID get a powered scooter coming from the VA last week and that will help when I have to go out/to the VA.
I might not last very long or be very effective but I'll be a real pain in the ass for a minute!
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Cliffh

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2017, 01:55:53 PM »
Been dealing with this for decades.  Many, many doctors in 3 different states; accupunture, physical therapy, chiropractors, stretches, cordizone injections, etc. etc. etc.  Sometimes it's bad, knife stuck in the low back kind of bad, but gotta do what needs to be done.  If things go as planned (yeah, right) I'll be able to retire in 6 or so years.

What's pissing me off is that both DW & I are getting caught up in the "fight" against the "epidemic". 

Quote
And we don't get paid for all of this various paperwork, etc.

That sucks.  One should be reimbursed for work performed.  You don't bill for office visit(s) or outpatient treatment?

charby

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2017, 02:03:03 PM »
".the longer I used the opiods, the harder it would be to stop using them.  "

Yeppers. Addiction starts early.

I think it depends upon the person. I've had friends with back issues on opioids for years, finally get a surgery that works and they go off of the opioids with no problem.

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Mannlicher

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 02:10:17 PM »
for a number of years,  I was taking Tramadol or norco 10/325 for my severe osteoarthritis hip pain.   Never had an addiction issue, but I'd rather not take 'em.    Doing some research on my own, and enlisting two friends with PharmD degrees, and talking to some friends that were PhD in Pharmaceutical Chemistry,  I found that a combination of Tylenol and an NSAID such as Motrin, would do the same job as the oxycodone tabs.  Nothing new in the cited reports.
My Cardio doc hates me taking NSAID,  and preferred me to stay on the Norco tabs.  Since I had my hip replaced though,  I don't take any of that stuff these days.

Firethorn

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2017, 02:12:29 PM »
I think it depends upon the person. I've had friends with back issues on opioids for years, finally get a surgery that works and they go off of the opioids with no problem.

It really does depend on the individual.  Measurements of 'addictiveness' are population measurements.  It's why you get people addicted to non-chemical things like gambling all the way to somebody who used Heroin for decades and then just stopped.

Where this gets annoying is the people who have a high resistance to addiction, at least the things they've encountered in their life, thinking that it is, or should be, that easy for everybody.  

I'd rather view it a bit like cancer.  Some people get cancers that are relatively benign.  My grandfather's colon cancer that, well, he was going to die of something else before that was hazardous.  Dad's skin cancer needed treatment, but relatively straightforward.  Grandmother's lung cancer?  That one was lethal.  

charby

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2017, 02:26:06 PM »
It really does depend on the individual.  Measurements of 'addictiveness' are population measurements.  It's why you get people addicted to non-chemical things like gambling all the way to somebody who used Heroin for decades and then just stopped.

I know of a lot sober alcoholics and drug users that use religion as their addiction now.
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BobR

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2017, 02:37:59 PM »
If you want to keep a sober alcoholic happy, buy him/her a bag of chocolate kisses. ;)


bob

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2017, 04:02:52 PM »
If you want to keep a sober alcoholic happy, buy him/her a bag of chocolate kisses. ;)

I'm a sober alcoholic, but a bag of chocolate makes me happy anyways.

grampster

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2017, 04:57:20 PM »
Several years ago, when Bill Buckley was still alive, The National Review dedicated an entire issue on the War on Drugs.  One of the bits that stood out in all of the articles that the magazine contained that month was about opioids.  The gist of the article was the vast majority of people who took opioids for a particular reason, when that reason went away, nearly 100% of them stopped taking opioids.  There will be addicts and addicts will be addicted.  But it seems that the notion is that those who need a thing for a reason, should be denied that thing because a few will abuse it.  I think that's stupidity and herd mentality of the highest order.  I once had a fellow ask me if I had ever tried cocaine.  I said no, but that I was curious about it.  He said "Don't do it."  I said "Why".  He said "Because you'll like it."  That, ladies and gentlemen, scared the crap out of me because I know me.  If I like something, I tend to overindulge.  I never tried it and I'm eternally grateful for the advice.  Now chocolate....that's another matter.

I have been suspicious of this whole Opioid Epidemic since the day, all of a sudden, out of the blue, we were told we had an epidemic.  I have never come to understand why this so called epidemic dropped out of the sky one day.  There must be some reason.  I sure don't know what. 

I've come to the conclusion that nothing that is in the MSM, radio, print, TV, or even the internet is trustworthy.  Maybe it's just because I'm 74 and have learned that being cynical and untrusting is more comforting and contentful than to be all caught up in each new phony catastrophe that presents itself each day.  It seems that we are being fed nothing but negativism on a grand scale, so I've decided to not partake or participate.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Mannlicher

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2017, 06:19:20 PM »
face it.  A whole lot of folks like to get stoned, drunk or otherwise alter their reality.  The 'addiction' thing is not really a factor in their decisions.  That their life style choices sometimes go awry, does not make me feel sorry for 'em.

Fitz

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2017, 06:34:41 PM »
I am terrified of opiates. I know there's history of addictions in my family, and I've seen what they can do.

I have VERY rarely had pain bad enough for them, and even when it is, I avoid them unless the pain is unbearable. As soon as is practical I switch to motrin. THen I usually turn in to the pharmacy a nearly unused bottle of them.


Fitz

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HeroHog

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2017, 06:51:36 PM »
See, I don't like to be drunk/stoned. I'm way too Type-A "must be in control of myself" for that. I come from a family tree full of alcoholics. My wife is a sober alcoholic. Why I have such a low tolerance for alcohol and such a high tolerance for codone, I'll never know!
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2017, 09:06:57 PM »
for a number of years,  I was taking Tramadol or norco 10/325 for my severe osteoarthritis hip pain.   Never had an addiction issue, but I'd rather not take 'em.    Doing some research on my own, and enlisting two friends with PharmD degrees, and talking to some friends that were PhD in Pharmaceutical Chemistry,  I found that a combination of Tylenol and an NSAID such as Motrin, would do the same job as the oxycodone tabs.  Nothing new in the cited reports.
My Cardio doc hates me taking NSAID,  and preferred me to stay on the Norco tabs.  Since I had my hip replaced though,  I don't take any of that stuff these days.

I'm curious as to why you haven't gone the hip replacement route?
I get that it is a major surgery with all the inherent risks.
My position is that this OA in my hip has already "stolen" a couple of years from me being able to do things I want to do. I know it won't get better, it will only get increasingly worse.
Today marked the first time I had to get my wife to pull my sock on to my right foot, also the 2nd time she had to trim my toenails on that side.
I'm more than ready to face a hip replacement surgery
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sumpnz

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 12:40:03 AM »
I am terrified of opiates. I know there's history of addictions in my family, and I've seen what they can do.

I have VERY rarely had pain bad enough for them, and even when it is, I avoid them unless the pain is unbearable. As soon as is practical I switch to motrin. THen I usually turn in to the pharmacy a nearly unused bottle of them.




I don't understand the recreational aspects of opioids.  When I need them I use them.  But I don't like what they do to me, never mind the rashes.  The Dilaudid wasn't too bad.  I got to sleep with that stuff and go decent pain relief.  But to the extent I get "high" on them I just feel like I'm incoherent, and it's nothing remotely pleasant.  Due to the side effects/allergies I prefer NSAIDs when the pain is within the limits of what they can handle.  I have scads of leftover opioids in the pantry.  Probably should take them to a disposal site so little fingers don't find them.

Fitz

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 01:04:12 AM »
I don't understand the recreational aspects of opioids.  When I need them I use them.  But I don't like what they do to me, never mind the rashes.  The Dilaudid wasn't too bad.  I got to sleep with that stuff and go decent pain relief.  But to the extent I get "high" on them I just feel like I'm incoherent, and it's nothing remotely pleasant.  Due to the side effects/allergies I prefer NSAIDs when the pain is within the limits of what they can handle.  I have scads of leftover opioids in the pantry.  Probably should take them to a disposal site so little fingers don't find them.

ive never understood recreational use either. I don't do well with them. They make me sick . When I have had them, I usually break them in half.

I wonder what they do with the ones I returned
Fitz

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MillCreek

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 08:43:17 AM »
I wonder what they do with the ones I returned

The returned drugs get shipped to a disposal facility and are incinerated.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Perd Hapley

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 08:45:14 AM »
The returned drugs get shipped to a disposal facility and are incinerated.

...he said defensively. You don't have to lie to us, MillCreek. We know why your office holiday parties are so lit.
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K Frame

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 09:08:50 AM »
Can't remember exactly where it happened, but here on the East coast somewhere a police lieutenant was recently arrested for stealing opiates out of the turn in box and from the evidence locker.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

charby

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »
I don't understand the recreational aspects of opioids.  When I need them I use them.  But I don't like what they do to me, never mind the rashes.  The Dilaudid wasn't too bad.  I got to sleep with that stuff and go decent pain relief.  But to the extent I get "high" on them I just feel like I'm incoherent, and it's nothing remotely pleasant.  Due to the side effects/allergies I prefer NSAIDs when the pain is within the limits of what they can handle.  I have scads of leftover opioids in the pantry.  Probably should take them to a disposal site so little fingers don't find them.

The 8 days I was on Oxycotin after shoulder surgery, I was mentally so happy with I could care less attitude from the drugs. Kind of like being euphorically buzzed for the week. You could of killed my wife in front of me, I would have noticed but I wouldn't of cared at the time.

I totally see why people can get addicted to that feeling.
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MillCreek

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2017, 11:40:25 AM »
...he said defensively. You don't have to lie to us, MillCreek. We know why your office holiday parties are so lit.

Oh, how I wish.  With Viagra as the party favors.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2017, 03:13:00 PM »
Oh, how I wish.  With Viagra as the party favors.

I guess that would depend on which side of the equation you are on....
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

BobR

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2017, 04:37:14 PM »
I guess that would depend on which side of the equation you are on....

Nah, it's the Seattle area, it doesn't matter to them. ;)  >:D


bob

charby

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Re: OTC pain relievers as good as opiates for injury pain
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2017, 04:38:48 PM »
Nah, it's the Seattle area, it doesn't matter to them. ;)  >:D


bob

they all use the same bathroom?
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