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Author Topic: Article about Savage Muzzleloaders and legal actions...  (Read 263 times)
Mike Irwin
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« on: December 07, 2017, 09:25:33 AM »

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-says-gun-maker-long-knew-explosion-prone-180953803--finance.html

Accusation is that Savage knew about flaws in the gun for a long time and did nothing while a number of people were hurt.
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 09:52:38 AM »

This is one of their smokeless powder muzzleloaders.  It makes me wonder if people blew theirs up by using the wrong powder.  According to the load data I found, You use VV N110.  The similarity in name makes me wonder if folks thought that was the same as H110.

Chris
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RoadKingLarry
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 10:14:41 AM »

Aw hell, gunpowderz is gunpowderz, fill the damn thing up and put two or three bullets in there and kill the deerz extree dead with one shot. DRT I'm tellin ya.
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HankB
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 04:26:42 PM »

Aw hell, gunpowderz is gunpowderz, fill the damn thing up and put two or three bullets in there and kill the deerz extree dead with one shot. DRT I'm tellin ya.

Durn toot'n it iz. Dats why I'ze gunn uze a full case o' BULLSEYE powder in my aught'six so's I kin hit dem BULLSEYES.
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Angel Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 06:51:21 PM »

Aw hell, gunpowderz is gunpowderz, fill the damn thing up and put two or three bullets in there and kill the deerz extree dead with one shot. DRT I'm tellin ya.

Well, someone's going to be DRT ...

On a related note:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en384qVqrug

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brimic
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 05:19:37 AM »

There have been a few of them that blew up, one was a really well documented case where the shooter was experimenting with powders not on the approved list for the rifle and was making duplex loads with them. I suspect that most, if not all failures were due to similar dumbfuckery.

I remember when the rifle came out, one of the guys who had a big part in in he design and testing (Randy Wakefield, iirc) was on a long thread on a hunting forum explaining why the rifle was safe using Ĺapproved powdersĺ -where a double or trip charge would cause the sabot base to fail, thereby venting excessive pressure.

Savageĺs culpability was in creating something not entirely idiotproof in a world full of idiots.
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230RN
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 02:06:26 AM »

I suspect any outfit assaying to produce a new firearms product would have tested many, many, pre-production models to destruction, and would damn well know what to recommend and what to avoid.

I know that in testing the Garand for ultimate strength, the U.S. Army concocted special proof loads that went up to 125,000 psi, the highest that could be measured with the pressure guns.  They couldn't get the Garand to burst, although other damage occured.  So they figured that was a pretty safe gun.

I also suspect that a lot of muzzle loader enthusiasts might not be too familiar with smokeless methods and dangers since many of them might be prohibited persons.  After all, black powder's ultimate pressure is only 25,000 psi.

Naw, I can't imagine that an outfit as old and experienced as Savage would be likely to put out a product that was known to be dangerous within its recommended parameters.

Especially nowadays.

I just hope the rifles they broke in their testing and experimentation aren't called in as evidence of their "carelessness."  I could see a hungry contingent fee lawyer pulling that kind of stunt.

Terry

REF:
Hatcher's Notebook, Chapter VIII, "The strength of military rifles," p198 ff

« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 04:58:51 AM by 230RN » Logged

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French G.
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 06:44:20 AM »

Just don't know why in this day and age you would make a product that asked people to pour smokeless powder down the barrel. All the normal muzzleloaders are covered with warnings not to. Nowhere will you find a cartridge gun that a mfg states is perfect for reloads. In fact, the lawyers put in every manual not to use reloads.
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mtnbkr
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 07:01:22 AM »

Just don't know why in this day and age you would make a product that asked people to pour smokeless powder down the barrel. All the normal muzzleloaders are covered with warnings not to. Nowhere will you find a cartridge gun that a mfg states is perfect for reloads. In fact, the lawyers put in every manual not to use reloads.

The plus side of a smokeless muzzleloader is that smokeless powder is cheaper, easier to find, safer to transport and store, etc.  The negative side is that there are so many types (slow to fast rifle, slow to fast handgun, specialty powders, etc), you really have to pay attention to the powder you're using and the bullet you pair it with. With black powder and substitutes, most of them use similar loading data (Blackhorn 209 being the most different, but is still close to the others).

Chris
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French G.
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 09:11:17 AM »

I've no doubt it can be done safely, the why is just from a product liability standpoint. The lawyer needs to present it either the timeless George Carlin quote. "Think of how stupid the average person is, now realize 50% are dumber than that!"
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