Another politicized overcharging.

[French G.]

The charges on the mental giant who ran over Heather Heyer in Charlottesville got upgraded to murder one. I think that increases his chance of getting off, or pleading to less than the original charge.

[TommyGunn]

Probably .....I don't think the powers that be will ever learn......

[K Frame]

Has to be charged as murder one.

Because of anti-Trump rage, and elected prosecutorial stupidity while pandering to the heavy SJW snowflake presence in that area.

[makattak]

I know people don't understand the law, but shouldn't a lawyer? Especially a prosecutor?

Murder 1 doesn't mean "IT'S THE ABSOLUTE WORSTEST MURDER EVER!" If I'm not wrong, it mainly means there was premeditation.

Murder 2 doesn't mean "It was bad, but not MURDER murder" It just means it was done more impulsively.


Unless they have texts (or the like) of him saying "I'm gonna run me over some Antifa!", I'm not clear how this was premeditated.

[French G.]

I do not know if it will be relevant in the case, but where the tragedy occurred is an odd place to be a pedestrian. For those unfamiliar, Google Street view it. The downtown mall is a pedestrian affair mainly. It is brick paved and walkable for about a half mile. Most cross streets are blocked by chain and bollard, in fact when I was a kid all the cross streets were blocked and I still try to walk out in traffic now. Two streets are open to cross now and when driving it is a tentative affair, I expect, kid, dog, or panhandler to venture out. When walking the barriers are not obvious, no cross walks or such. I am sure protestors blocked traffic there because it was easy. One block off the main protest, low traffic volume and low speed.

Now, for crowd control the mall should be a cop dream. The limited cross streets and wall of buildings mean six squad cars ought to be able to shut down an area three blocks wide and a half mile long. Foot traffic is funneled by the buildings, especially if they are on the mall, only so many ways out. It has come out that the street where Heyer was killed was manned by one cop who bailed out when her position became untenable. Traffic should have never been on the outer ring streets, much less down the cross street. Be interesting to see if the shared culpability of the cops affects the case.

[K Frame]

From the Code of Virginia:

"Murder, other than capital murder, by poison, lying in wait, imprisonment, starving, or by any willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or in the commission of, or attempt to commit, arson, rape, forcible sodomy, inanimate or animate object sexual penetration, robbery, burglary or abduction, except as provided in § 18.2-31, is murder of the first degree, punishable as a Class 2 felony.

All murder other than capital murder and murder in the first degree is murder of the second degree and is punishable by confinement in a state correctional facility for not less than five nor more than forty years."


"Felony Homidice - The killing of one accidentally, contrary to the intention of the parties, while in the prosecution of some felonious act other than those specified in §§ 18.2-31 and 18.2-32, is murder of the second degree and is punishable by confinement in a state correctional facility for not less than five years nor more than forty years."

And finally...

"Capital Murder -- The following offenses shall constitute capital murder, punishable as a Class 1 felony:

1. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of abduction, as defined in § 18.2-48, when such abduction was committed with the intent to extort money or a pecuniary benefit or with the intent to defile the victim of such abduction;

2. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another for hire;

3. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by a prisoner confined in a state or local correctional facility as defined in § 53.1-1, or while in the custody of an employee thereof;

4. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of robbery or attempted robbery;

5. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of, or subsequent to, rape or attempted rape, forcible sodomy or attempted forcible sodomy or object sexual penetration;

6. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101, a fire marshal appointed pursuant to § 27-30 or a deputy or an assistant fire marshal appointed pursuant to § 27-36, when such fire marshal or deputy or assistant fire marshal has police powers as set forth in §§ 27-34.2 and 27-34.2:1, an auxiliary police officer appointed or provided for pursuant to §§ 15.2-1731 and 15.2-1733, an auxiliary deputy sheriff appointed pursuant to § 15.2-1603, or any law-enforcement officer of another state or the United States having the power to arrest for a felony under the laws of such state or the United States, when such killing is for the purpose of interfering with the performance of his official duties;

7. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of more than one person as a part of the same act or transaction;

8. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of more than one person within a three-year period;

9. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of or attempted commission of a violation of § 18.2-248, involving a Schedule I or II controlled substance, when such killing is for the purpose of furthering the commission or attempted commission of such violation;

10. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another pursuant to the direction or order of one who is engaged in a continuing criminal enterprise as defined in subsection I of § 18.2-248;

11. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a pregnant woman by one who knows that the woman is pregnant and has the intent to cause the involuntary termination of the woman's pregnancy without a live birth;

12. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a person under the age of fourteen by a person age twenty-one or older;

13. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another in the commission of or attempted commission of an act of terrorism as defined in § 18.2-46.4;

14. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a justice of the Supreme Court, a judge of the Court of Appeals, a judge of a circuit court or district court, a retired judge sitting by designation or under temporary recall, or a substitute judge appointed under § 16.1-69.9:1 when the killing is for the purpose of interfering with his official duties as a judge; and

15. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any witness in a criminal case after a subpoena has been issued for such witness by the court, the clerk, or an attorney, when the killing is for the purpose of interfering with the person's duties in such case."

[French G.]

Who knows, maybe his cell phone is full of texts detailing his plans to kill a commie for Mommy. But given the responding officer's statement about his condition, I doubt it.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I do not know if it will be relevant in the case, but where the tragedy occurred is an odd place to be a pedestrian. For those unfamiliar, Google Street view it. The downtown mall is a pedestrian affair mainly. It is brick paved and walkable for about a half mile. Most cross streets are blocked by chain and bollard, in fact when I was a kid all the cross streets were blocked and I still try to walk out in traffic now. Two streets are open to cross now and when driving it is a tentative affair, I expect, kid, dog, or panhandler to venture out. When walking the barriers are not obvious, no cross walks or such. I am sure protestors blocked traffic there because it was easy. One block off the main protest, low traffic volume and low speed.

Now, for crowd control the mall should be a cop dream. The limited cross streets and wall of buildings mean six squad cars ought to be able to shut down an area three blocks wide and a half mile long. Foot traffic is funneled by the buildings, especially if they are on the mall, only so many ways out. It has come out that the street where Heyer was killed was manned by one cop who bailed out when her position became untenable. Traffic should have never been on the outer ring streets, much less down the cross street. Be interesting to see if the shared culpability of the cops affects the case.

I thought she wasn't even a cop, just someone who worked for the City Police?

Anyhoo, Murder 1 sounds like someone wants this to get ugly. I don't think I'm being paranoid after everything else that's happened in this town, not to mention the new BS Kessler started and the city appears to be mishandling AGAIN.

Maybe we should rent an apartment over the mall next summer and hold riot watching parties?

[T.O.M.]

The truth?  Elected prosecutors are pretty much politicians.  Have to be to get elected to the job in the first place.  And like most politicians, once they have the job and realize they like that job, they begin making decisions based, at least in part, on their desire to keep that job.  So, in cases that get a lot of attention, many prosecutors (not the assistants that actually do trial work) decide charges based as much on public perception as they do the facts of the case.  In a case like this one, it wouldn't be hard to ramrod capital murder through a grand jury.  So the prosecutor gets to hold a press conference and stand there with game face on, talking about the heinous crime and how he/she is seeking the maximum penalty. 

So, then the litigation process begins.  Make an offer behind closed doors, plead to straight murder.  Takes death penalty off the table, and in most places it gives possibility of parole in 20-25 years.  If the defendant takes the deal, prosecutor stands in front of the cameras and talks about how justice was done, and the deal lets the victim's families move past this.  If they go to trail and get a conviction, even better, prosecutor can stand in the same spotlight and claim victory over evil.  If there's an acquittal, the prosecutor can always blame the judge for bad rulings, or the jury for a bad verdict.

In any event, the prosecutor got a lot of camera time, a lot of name recognition, and campaign material where he can brag about fighting the good fight.

I've read a lot about eliminating plea bargaining to cut back on overcharging.  I worked in a prosecutors office where policy was no plea bargaining.  That prosecutor retired in 2008.  His replacement started plea bargaining, and sold it as a necessary evil given the number of cases, limited budget, and a lack of time on court dockets for all of the cases. 

Personal opinion, plea bargaining sucks.  I get the necessary evil argument, but in my experience, if you charge people with what they actually did, more than you think will plea guilty or no contest.  And, truly, if you charge that way, litigation is easier, and trials are shorter.

[Pb]

Did this guy intentionally run over people?  If so, he deserves the death penalty in my opinion, not sure about what the law says.

[just Warren]

8. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of more than one person within a three-year period

 


Some kind of catch-all for serial killers maybe?

[BlueStarLizzard]

Did this guy intentionally run over people?  If so, he deserves the death penalty in my opinion, not sure about what the law says.

Going forward, he slammed into another car. I'm pretty sure that was intentional.

Going backwards... Baseball bats and other smashy type weapons appeared in the hands of the antifa people pretty quick after the crash, I doubt hitting anyone was his intention, but getting the hell out of dodge was.

*shrug* I think they should throw the book at the guy, but I think the book needs to be what can be proven. I don't think what he did was a "willful, deliberate, and premeditated" killing. I think he meant for people to be hurt and property to be damaged, but I don't think he was setting out to kill someone.
Too be honest, I don't think he's bright enough for that. If he wanted to kill people, there are a lot more efficient ways to do so than rear ending another car.

and what better way to spark another riot in Charlottesville than to have this asshat get a Not Guilty verdict because they can't prove he committed Murder one?

[RoadKingLarry]

and what better way to spark another riot in Charlottesville than to have this asshat get a Not Guilty verdict because they can't prove he committed Murder one?

More and more I'm starting to think some of these things are deliberate set-ups intended to spark outbreaks of violent "protests".
 

[HankB]

News stories said the guy encountered the crowd and then backed up for more than a block before driving forward and ramming another stopped car; if this is accurate, I can see a plausible argument for the element of premeditation to hurt someone, but deliberate murder may be a stretch.

After the impact, the "peaceful" demonstrators produced bats and other weapons, attacking his car, which then backed up, hitting several of the "peaceful" demonstrators.

From what I've seen and read, there are no good guys involved, least of all the driver. And the events here just reinforce my determination to avoid these demonstrations/counter demonstrations.

[BlueStarLizzard]

More and more I'm starting to think some of these things are deliberate set-ups intended to spark outbreaks of violent "protests".
 

If you lived in Charlottesville, you wouldn't be just starting to think that. You'd have known it since August.

[French G.]

It was November before I ventured back down there. I always like it there, a lot of growing up was done there, from about 10-14 most of my summers were spent around there, or freely wandering Charlottesville. Now the Woolworths is a movie theater, the people are weirder, and it doesn't feel like a safe small town anymore.

[MikeB]

News stories said the guy encountered the crowd and then backed up for more than a block before driving forward and ramming another stopped car; if this is accurate, I can see a plausible argument for the element of premeditation to hurt someone, but deliberate murder may be a stretch.

After the impact, the "peaceful" demonstrators produced bats and other weapons, attacking his car, which then backed up, hitting several of the "peaceful" demonstrators.

From what I've seen and read, there are no good guys involved, least of all the driver. And the events here just reinforce my determination to avoid these demonstrations/counter demonstrations.

If I recall correctly there may even be video of people throwing things and hitting the car before he hit the people. While I think that is a far stretch from providing a reasonable self defense claim; if there is video of that it would likely provide reasonable doubt on premeditated action. They very well may provide this guy a way out by overcharging. Couple that with the report that came out that places a lot of blame on the police and city for mismanaging the whole situation ...